Pete. (l33t FS) said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
alfadriver said:
SEADave said:
Gotta respect the fact that the Camaro came with 4 different engines and each one of them could be had with a real 6-speed manual. Apparently that wasn't enough. Interesting to note that Ford dropped the manual for the new Ecoboost Mustang and the Challenger (AFAIK) never offered a manual with anything less than the V8.
Why would that matter? People like posters here don't buy enough new cars, and the Camaro, Mustang, Charger trio are more about nostalgia than real performance. Drive a car that *can* do something rather than actually doing it- so manuals don't matter. Especially these days.
If you believe that you should go check the Lightning Lap results. A 1LE Mustang or Track Pack Mustang is a real performance car bargain.
Doesn't matter what they CAN do, that isn't why the majority of people buy them, is the point being made.
It does matter when someone says they are not about performance but nostalgia. They perform, but yes the average buyer is only interested in the illusion of performance.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Truth. Just like the people who want a truck that can tow 40k pounds so they can use it like people in third world countries use mopeds. They like the idea of what it could do without actually doing those things.
(40k pounds is not an exaggeration, either, look up what some of the beefier one ton trucks are rated for!)
Is that everyone? No. But probably.most people.who buy ZL1s and GT500s putt around, take it to a cruise in every so often, maybe make a couple tentative drag strip passes just to say they did.
The 5.2l monster was an unabashed weapon that was really an all track affair, was not too pleasant on the street, and it didn't have the gee whiz numbers compared to the GT500, so people didn't exactly line up to buy one. Shame, as it's probably the only newer Mustang that really interested me, but waaay outside my budget for new. Even now, they seem to be trading used for $60kish. That kind of money would get me a clean RS3, which is all wheel drive, looks like a Jetta, and give me financial wiggle room.
Man, wouldn't it have been cool if Chevy put the C8 engine in a Camaro?
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
alfadriver said:
SEADave said:
Gotta respect the fact that the Camaro came with 4 different engines and each one of them could be had with a real 6-speed manual. Apparently that wasn't enough. Interesting to note that Ford dropped the manual for the new Ecoboost Mustang and the Challenger (AFAIK) never offered a manual with anything less than the V8.
Why would that matter? People like posters here don't buy enough new cars, and the Camaro, Mustang, Charger trio are more about nostalgia than real performance. Drive a car that *can* do something rather than actually doing it- so manuals don't matter. Especially these days.
If you believe that you should go check the Lightning Lap results. A 1LE Mustang or Track Pack Mustang is a real performance car bargain.
Doesn't matter what they CAN do, that isn't why the majority of people buy them, is the point being made.
It does matter when someone says they are not about performance but nostalgia. They perform, but yes the average buyer is only interested in the illusion of performance.
The nostalgia is all about performance. It harkens back to an era of the big three stuffing ever bigger and better motors into things in order to outdo each other.
Performance definitely matters for these cars
I've owned second, third, and forth gen F-bodies, enjoyed them all as daily drivers . Yes, I'm single, but so are a lot of other people.
The 5th gen is a good car if you get past the plastic bucket interoir, horrible HVAC /radio controls, and crappy guages.
Gen 6 gave GM a chance to fix all this....but they didn't. The guage pod is huge and hard to see over, the HVAC controls are even worse than before, and now there is a big confusing / distracting screen for the radio.
The chassis and powertrain are great in both cars, the styling varies by year and trim level, pick what you like, but most seem to be the best of a bad situation.
The Caddy ATS has the same platform and has good visibility, so clearly it can be done. I'd look at one of these but no V6 manual. (Except big bucks V series)
Opti
SuperDork
3/25/23 11:57 a.m.
In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :
The hvac controllers are one of my favorite parts.
The ATSV with a manual is wicked. Buddy bought one. I prefer the V8 in the platform but it was still exceptional
BlueInGreen - Jon said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
alfadriver said:
SEADave said:
Gotta respect the fact that the Camaro came with 4 different engines and each one of them could be had with a real 6-speed manual. Apparently that wasn't enough. Interesting to note that Ford dropped the manual for the new Ecoboost Mustang and the Challenger (AFAIK) never offered a manual with anything less than the V8.
Why would that matter? People like posters here don't buy enough new cars, and the Camaro, Mustang, Charger trio are more about nostalgia than real performance. Drive a car that *can* do something rather than actually doing it- so manuals don't matter. Especially these days.
If you believe that you should go check the Lightning Lap results. A 1LE Mustang or Track Pack Mustang is a real performance car bargain.
Doesn't matter what they CAN do, that isn't why the majority of people buy them, is the point being made.
It does matter when someone says they are not about performance but nostalgia. They perform, but yes the average buyer is only interested in the illusion of performance.
The nostalgia is all about performance. It harkens back to an era of the big three stuffing ever bigger and better motors into things in order to outdo each other.
Performance definitely matters for these cars
The perception of performance does, almost nobody actually exercises the car in that way, so the transmission does not.
The group of people that are on this board are an incredibly small portion of the new car buying crowd. So to extrapolate the wants of this board to the general public, even for a "muscle car", is a mistake.
500hp is light years more important than a 6 speed manual.
Opti
SuperDork
3/25/23 5:36 p.m.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
The terribly unreliable engine might have deterred some GT350 buyers. I almost bought one instead of the 1LE, and the incredibly expensive and early engine failures stopped me. Loved the car, was special enough to keep forever, just couldnt get over the engine failures for something I wanted longterm.
