I bought a beautiful one owner Saab 9-5 Aero with 100K. Super well kept and always maintained at the same place. But all the internet chatter of sludge in the 00 through 02 2.3 engine is getting into my head. So which magical goo to use?
I bought a beautiful one owner Saab 9-5 Aero with 100K. Super well kept and always maintained at the same place. But all the internet chatter of sludge in the 00 through 02 2.3 engine is getting into my head. So which magical goo to use?
the only one ive ever used is seafoam, we sell valvolines product at work but the 2.3t ford guys all swore by seafoam so i tryed it years back with good results
Drain the oil.
Change the filter.
Install whatever ATF you feel like buying to full oil pan capacity. That is no "engine oil", just 4.5 or 5.3 or whatever quarts of Dexron. Your engine will not die. It's just a 5W20 with different additive package. Trust me, I've done this many times before.
Drive the car normally.
Change the oil filter after a few hundred miles.
Keep driving it.
After 1000mi or so, do a regular oil change.
After a few hundred more miles, change the filter, cut it open (this offer way easier if your engine has a cartridge filter, why do people hate cartridge filters, cartridge filters are FREAKING AWESOME) and if it isn't full of debris, you're done.
Sea foam or mmo
bg products MOA system
I would pull the valve cover and take a look. If that is good do the coat hanger through the drain plug if both are good just regular full synthetic oil. I had a 99 linear that the Internet would have you think would explode at any moment. I followed above and drove it for 100k trouble free miles.
Here's a hundred miles of ATF in a gunked Volvo engine (mine):
Have I mentioned yet that cartridge filters are awesome? No need for a filter cutter, just a pocket knife is all you need to inspect what is trying to go through your engine, or in this case, what is breaking free from the insides of your engine.
It was pretty clean in there this winter when I had the oil pan off to replace the oil pickup O-ring and have a general look-see inside. (Whiteblock Volvos don't have "valve covers" easily removed. The thing that looks like a valve cover is actually the cam caps, in a kind of top-end engine bedplate. The more I am around these buggers the more I like their design)
Upgrade to the PCV #6 and pull the valve cover. Drop the pan and do it the right way if it's nasty under the valve cover, because that oil pickup is very poorly designed (had a '99 myself).
Add a quart of diesel fuel to the hot engine before oil change, let idle for a while (half hour or so), change oil. Or just put Shell Rotella T6 5w40 in it and drain it when it turns black, if this takes more than a few thousand miles, it's probably not gunked to begin with.
What ever you use change the oil hot, and let it drip for as long as you can. Every drip is more dirt out.
ATF is cheap and easy. Anything you use, if the engine really is badly sludged, can block the oil pickup screen when it starts moving and cause more trouble than it solves.
Knurled wrote: Drain the oil. Change the filter. Install whatever ATF you feel like buying to full oil pan capacity. That is no "engine oil", just 4.5 or 5.3 or whatever quarts of Dexron. Your engine will not die. It's just a 5W20 with different additive package. Trust me, I've done this many times before. *Drive the car normally*. Change the oil filter after a few hundred miles. *Keep driving it.* After 1000mi or so, do a regular oil change. After a few hundred more miles, change the filter, cut it open (this offer way easier if your engine has a cartridge filter, why do people hate cartridge filters, cartridge filters are FREAKING AWESOME) and if it isn't full of debris, you're done.
This has worked for me several times.
Knurled wrote: Drain the oil. Change the filter. Install whatever ATF you feel like buying to full oil pan capacity. That is no "engine oil", just 4.5 or 5.3 or whatever quarts of Dexron. Your engine will not die. It's just a 5W20 with different additive package. Trust me, I've done this many times before. *Drive the car normally*. Change the oil filter after a few hundred miles. *Keep driving it.* After 1000mi or so, do a regular oil change. After a few hundred more miles, change the filter, cut it open (this offer way easier if your engine has a cartridge filter, why do people hate cartridge filters, cartridge filters are FREAKING AWESOME) and if it isn't full of debris, you're done.
Done this for years, but only idling for an hour then draining. I may have to try driving around a bit, but idling worked well.
A "super well kept and always maintained" car with only 100K shouldn't be sludged up. Odds are, it is clean inside. I wouldn't risk any kind of "magical goo" engine flush without confirming the need.
Danny Shields wrote: A "super well kept and always maintained" car with only 100K shouldn't be sludged up. Odds are, it is clean inside. I wouldn't risk any kind of "magical goo" engine flush without confirming the need.
That would be my thought, too.
+1 for ATF.
Full flush is great. Otherwise, just add 1qt of ATF about 500 miles before each oil change for maintenance cleaning.
RossD wrote:Danny Shields wrote: A "super well kept and always maintained" car with only 100K shouldn't be sludged up. Odds are, it is clean inside. I wouldn't risk any kind of "magical goo" engine flush without confirming the need.That would be my thought, too.
It might be OK, but the early T7 Saabs have an extremely poorly-designed oil pickup and PCV system from the factory, which when combined with the factory recommended 10k conventional OCI, wreaked havoc. Most of them that are off the road are due to sludge problems; Saab upgraded the PCV system design a ridiculous six times before GM finally revised the recommendation to full synth every 5k. I'd definitely check under the valve cover before committing to an ATF flush, but OP isn't exactly worrying about nothing.
I agree- pull the valve cover, assess what you have, figure out which PCV update is in the car. Eeuroparts sells the update kits if you need one. If it does look ugly, may not be a bad idea to drop the oil pan and clean the pickup screen.
Good to know that the ATF flush actualfly works, I've been kind of skeptical about 'the Internet' info about it.
It's also possible/probable that if it was well cared for, it looks fine inside. My '04 looks like a new car inside with 180k worth of Mobil1 q5k .
Ninja re-edit: did you get any service records?
Kerosene or MMO was used before atf was invented.
I use the diesel/kerosene method. Works great, and instant fix instead of driving it with ATF for a long time.
revrico wrote:Knurled wrote: Drain the oil. Change the filter. Install whatever ATF you feel like buying to full oil pan capacity. That is no "engine oil", just 4.5 or 5.3 or whatever quarts of Dexron. Your engine will not die. It's just a 5W20 with different additive package. Trust me, I've done this many times before. *Drive the car normally*. Change the oil filter after a few hundred miles. *Keep driving it.* After 1000mi or so, do a regular oil change. After a few hundred more miles, change the filter, cut it open (this offer way easier if your engine has a cartridge filter, why do people hate cartridge filters, cartridge filters are FREAKING AWESOME) and if it isn't full of debris, you're done.Done this for years, but only idling for an hour then draining. I may have to try driving around a bit, but idling worked well.
Same here. I always assumed that ATF didn't have the shear strength (if that's the right term) to hold up under the stress of actually driving the car. I've never heard that it's actually oil. It sure looks and smells different.
Regardless, after 20 minutes of idling in Ugly, that stuff came out jet black, so I know it did something.
I"ve used ATF before in our old Geo Tracker. 20 mins idling and it came out as black and gooey as pure crude. The funny thing is if you go over to BITOG the experts will tell you that ATF wont work, but mine and other people I know (Like Tom above) have used it to great effect.
I do throw a tin of Seafoam in the gas tank about 50 miles before every third or fourth oil change on the Volvo as well.
Danny Shields wrote: A "super well kept and always maintained" car with only 100K shouldn't be sludged up. Odds are, it is clean inside. I wouldn't risk any kind of "magical goo" engine flush without confirming the need.
Sometimes "maintained religiously" means "Every Easter and Christmas".
Tom_Spangler wrote: Same here. I always assumed that ATF didn't have the shear strength (if that's the right term) to hold up under the stress of actually driving the car. I've never heard that it's actually oil. It sure looks and smells different.
Different additive packages. Engine oils have a lot of additives to deal with combustion by-products, transmission fluids don't. So, you wouldn't want to use ATF exclusively on a long term basis but you aren't going to hurt the engine.
Knurled, what do you use to cut open a non-cartridge filter?
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