My car has been moved to a new class in which a competitor, who is very nice, has a car which appears to not meet class rules. I have never protested anyone in my life and hate to do so. I don't want to appear as a jerk coming into this class, but don't want to be disadvantaged. I thought about approaching this person, but am unsure how to broach the subject. Any ideas would be helpful.
If you don't broach the subject with the other competitor but wait until an event is over and file a protest then you sir are the jerk. Dosn't matter how you start the conversation just do it. What if you were him? How would you want to be approached?
Local event? Is it worth it to you for a pen or lanyard? Have you talked to him about what he's done to the car and politely say "hmm... I thought if you did that it would bump you into X class"?
Gimp wrote: Have you talked to him about what he's done to the car and politely say "hmm... I thought if you did that it would bump you into X class"?
+1
Seems to be the best way. If he is like most of the people I autocross with he might not even realize his mods bump him out of class. Most people don't read the rule book before they buy the next greatest widget.
+2
bruceman wrote: If you don't broach the subject with the other competitor but wait until an event is over and file a protest then you sir are the jerk. Dosn't matter how you start the conversation just do it. What if you were him? How would you want to be approached?
First of all, I would not do that. We have not yet run our first 2009 event. I know the car because I am Chief of Tech. One of the things they teach you in tech is not to try to class the cars. He was protested in another region last year and was bumped to prepared so he is aware of a problem.
I would want to be told as soon as possible. I would not take offense to the advice. However, he knows there is a problem and has not addressed it as of now.
It is on a regional level and our times are similar so it is not THAT big of a deal. I guess I'll just leave it be.
Rules are rules, so the driver in question should probably accept being in the appropriate class.
Out of curiosity, what's the infraction? It might make more sense for them to un-mod themselves back to legality.
I'm a protest filing machine. While it is rallying, stewards and officials cringe in fear when they see me approach with pen and paper in hand. As Tom said, rules are rules. What the f*&k is the point in playing the game if you aren't PLAYING the game.
+1 to that. Everyone should play by the rules. I would ask him politely, find out for sure, and ask him to make the correction himself. If he doesn't, then file the protest.
Tom Heath wrote: Rules are rules, so the driver in question should probably accept being in the appropriate class. Out of curiosity, what's the infraction? It might make more sense for them to un-mod themselves back to legality.
Some mixing of SP and IT rules. Gutting of the interior (IT) but SP wheels wider than IT rules. Interior is actually too gutted for even IT. Also, IT states that cars must come up to minimum stated weight using ballast if necessary. This car is gutted and no ballast to be found. It is not that far over the limits, but it is over.
Some people are willing to cheat to win that stupid little plastic trophy.
Problem is, they are stealing it from someone else.
REPORT HIM! Let the track officials do their job.
If the only weight reduction is interior removal, it is likely he hasn't reached the minimum weight. Those minimums are REALLY low, and modern interiors are awfully light.
But report him anyway.
The rules clearly state that a car set up for IT road racing can run in there respective SP class in autox BUT there can be no cross pollenation. It either has to fit the IT rules or the SP rules period. Sorry about his bad luck but he either needs to change the car or suffer what ever class it puts him in.
When I first start autoxing I had a nearly stock 510. I took the back seat out and it promptly bumped me in to Street Mod. I had my a$$ handed to me by the big boys when the time sheets started coming out but thems the rules.
I have no problem with colorful interpretation of the rules but cheating is cheating. Report him or at least talk to him about it.
nickel_dime wrote: I have no problem with colorful interpretation of the rules but cheating is cheating.
Hell, there should be bonus points for this, if you ask me.
But yeah, approach the driver, broach the subject to give him a chance to make the appropriate correction, and if he doesn't, report to the officials. The rules - and the honor to follow them - are the only things that keep this racing fair and honest.
What's the point of classes or rules at all if nobody follows them?
I hate rule setups that put the responsibility on peer competitors to complain. It makes for contention where there should be camaraderie. Why shouldn't tech class the cars or at least flag a questionable car for inspection rather than making every event end like "Well he beat me but I think he cheated so I'm protesting"? If everyone has to protest - its the same amount of work to police as doing it proactively but its creating an air of suspicion and hostility.
I have suggested a Classing Commitee be used at events when the cheating was rampant.
I like to run with AROC and the DSCC, there is no real big issues with cheating over there.
walterj has a great point, bottom line is he should be approached in advance and not by you if that's at all possible.
Approach him. Mention that you don't think he's legal. Give him a chance to prove you wrong. If he acknowledges that he's illegal but won't change classes himself upon request, then an informal word to the event chair is appropriate. If that gets no action, file a protest. I doubt it will get that far.
He may not know. He may know, but be classing himself where the good competition is, expecting no body to care.
I agree with Dave, less confrontational but with results.
Just out of curiosity, how does the guy run? Trophy every weekend or is he just doinking around to get out of the house on Sunday?
Dan
I always love the guys who, when caught being blatant, resort to the "aw shucks, it's just local racing/for fun/whatever." If that's the case, then take your car to prepared or mod or whatever. You'll still have the same amount of fun. Oh wait, then you'll get your clock cleaned by a car prepared to the rules instead of winning a trophy in the other class? Hmmm, the real answer comes out......
As has been said, we have rules. If you just want to have fun, then do it in the appropriate class and the fact that you lose by 8 seconds won't dampen the fun you claimed you were having when you signed up your gutted car in stock class......
I would talk to they guy and then report him....I have been protested for the wrong tires before...I was unaware there was a problem, and I moved to the appropriate class...sometimes it is just that easy.
If he was protested and lost in another region already for this same thing it sounds like he already knows it is illegal.
Man, I really liked autocrossing back in the day with BSCC. Run whatcha brung stuff, with only 7 classes originally, then bumped to 9 to add formula type cars and novices. funny how even the competition in those classes was even though cars in them ranged from bone stock to just about full race cars.
novice, Small sedan, Medium sedan, Larger sedan, Sports C, Sports B, Sports A, Prepared, Modified.
yup. Not a lot of protesting or worrying about cheating. Just fun racing, even with over a hundred cars a day.
glueguy wrote: I always love the guys who, when caught being blatant, resort to the "aw shucks, it's just local racing/for fun/whatever." If that's the case, then take your car to prepared or mod or whatever. You'll still have the same amount of fun. Oh wait, then you'll get your clock cleaned by a car prepared to the rules instead of winning a trophy in the other class? Hmmm, the real answer comes out...... As has been said, we have rules. If you just want to have fun, then do it in the appropriate class and the fact that you lose by 8 seconds won't dampen the fun you claimed you were having when you signed up your gutted car in stock class......
OTOH, if you're just there to have fun, it shouldn't matter who's in your class, either. It's that chase for the $5 plastic trophy that gets both sleazy cheaters AND self important rules enforcers out in force.
Chris_V wrote: self important rules enforcers out in force.
No such thing. Prep your car to the rules. DOn't try to place the blame the person who calls you out.
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