Rallycross SR or PR cars?

I've been thinking about switching to SR or PR in rallycross to avoid towing and just show up on snow tires to race. Which cars could be competitive at the national level? The only ones I can think of are E36 M3 (or other 3 series) or RX8.

Do you want power or handling or both? For SR you would ideally find something with a factory limited slip differential and wheel diameter with good snow tire availability. And Bilsteins off the shelf.

For PR you can add a diff and change wheels/brakes so it's not as big of a deal.

In addition to the M3 and RX-8 I would think about:

MSM Miata

Any MR2

350Z?

Boxster

Mustang?

FC RX-7

I wouldn't buy something that you think is E36 M3 to avoid towing, in fact if something is E36 M3 I'd be more likely to tow it and avoid issues in having to arrange having to tow it home.

I think if nations change their venue you'll see a swing regarding what cars are competitive. A longer faster, flowing course would make Volvo 240's competitive in MR and maybe PR. Same goes for Merkur XRTi. Once you get away from a location that it lower speed with a tighter more condensed course the best cars end up being more traditional rally cars opposed to prototypical autocross stars, not that those can't still perform quite well.

I want it all for under $5000.

The issue with the RX8 is fitting 15" wheels with rally tires for PR. MR2 turbo may be an option but it has limited room for carrying wheels/tires/tools (another thing I would like).

Boxster would be interesting, no idea what hardtops cost for those. 350Z seems too much like a heavy pig. FC rx-7 TII might be an option, finding a decent stock one would be tough.

Would an e46 3-series provide any advantage/disadvantage over an E36 M3 or standard 3 series?

I would love a 318ti but could it be competitive against the Miatas nationally?

captdownshift wrote: I wouldn't buy something that you think is E36 M3 to avoid towing, in fact if something is E36 M3 I'd be more likely to tow it and avoid issues in having to arrange having to tow it home. I think if nations change their venue you'll see a swing regarding what cars are competitive. A longer faster, flowing course would make Volvo 240's competitive in MR and maybe PR. Same goes for Merkur XRTi. Once you get away from a location that it lower speed with a tighter more condensed course the best cars end up being more traditional rally cars opposed to prototypical autocross stars, not that those can't still perform quite well.

E36 M3 the car, not the word filter. If I was doing MR I would keep running the Miata.

EvanB wrote: I want it all for under $5000.

Merkur

I am partial to the idea of you buying an RX-8, but you'll probably be breaking some new ground on it. There was a full stage rally car built out of an RX-8, but that is the only one that I am aware of, anywhere.

Remember that for PR, someone could build a MSM Miata as good as yours.

318ti for SR, probably not as good as the Miatas. SR should really, theoretically, be dominated by mid/rear engine cars.

Good luck with truly stock-legal Merkur. I'm wondering what bumpstops all the SR Miatas are using. Anything other than oem is technically illegal.

For SR I would want something with 'sporty' spring rates (like msm springs relative to base miata).

I don't think I could be competitive against the Miatas in SR with a Merkur. I don't think we'll see anyone building a MSM for PR but I could be wrong. I'm not going to be the one to do it.

Nathan Usher was talking about getting a 996 for SR, that would be tough to beat. I think the rx-8 could be competitive in PR on snow tires or off-road tires in 16", they can also be found cheaper than the other options and I would love one for a DD.

I've been thinking about this for days. Both you and Pete have twice the power of the Corolla and LSD and he was rather close. Right ahead of him was a stock Miata (with those frame rail thingies) on rally tires. I'm no longer convinced that building a winning car on paper is worth as much as I thought it was.
I'm sure an E36 M3 would be competitive. Do they have factory hard tops for the M roadster? It is theoretically possible to find an IS300 with a manual and an LSD. I still think a Mustang optioned right could have a chance.

M Coupe. But yes, there are factory hard tops for the M Roadsters.

I wonder how a 944 would do

cghstang wrote: M Coupe. But yes, there are factory hard tops for the M Roadsters.

M Coupe is $$$$$ which is why I suggested the roadster.

16" Maxsport RB3 rally tires for $700 shipped from the UK makes the RX8 a front runner.

EvanB wrote: I've been thinking about switching to SR or PR in rallycross to avoid towing and just show up on snow tires to race.

?

Well for SR I would run snow tires. If I decided to run PR at nationals at some point I would like to have the possibility of running rally tires.

You can drive a pretty long way on rally tires. Just ask Pete

I always go back to rx8 for rally car but the wheel/tire dilemma... ughhh

Didn't Miatas just win all 3 rear drive classes at nationals? Can't you just detune yours to the rules? Seems simpler to me - or does the engine swap make that impossible?

I understand their has been quite a bit of success by older RX-7's:

• Looking at early RX-7, their curb weight is listed as 2300-2500 lbs.

• Looking at RX-8's their curb weight is listed at +/- 3050 lbs.

It strikes me that I would want something more than 159 ft lbs. of torque to get off a corner in a 3050 lb car. Yes I know gearing can do wonderful things. Their has only been one RX-8 rally car for a reason.

RWD and torquey big 4 or a turbo is your best option to meet what you asked for. There just isn't many options other than BMW's or older RWD (Volvo, Merkur, Mustang SVO, etc.)

captdownshift wrote:

EvanB wrote: I want it all for under $5000.

Merkur

I wanted to do the Merkur thing for PR, but there were three major roadblocks:

• The car NEEDS an intercooler. You can't add one in Prepared.
• The car NEEDS a better transmission. The ratios suck and then they break. You can't fix that in Prepared.
• The cheapest/easiest way to put a good diff in (Chevy 7.5" fits!) requires doing a lot of grinding to the inside of the case, which is not Prepared legal. The other option is welded. I'd rather have a good diff than a welded one.

wae wrote: You can drive a pretty long way on rally tires. Just ask Pete

WHAT

An rx8 seems like a bad choice for a rally car. i haven't done any reasearch but good wheels and tires seem like they would be hard to find and the wheelbase feels really long for tighter twisty sections.

If I were going rwd ( I'd love to at some point ) id go e36. Doesn't have to be m3 just as long as it's got the straight 6. If I had money growing out my ears Id go 911. Just because lol

EvanB wrote: I want it all for under $5000. MR2 turbo may be an option but it has limited room for carrying wheels/tires/tools (another thing I would like).

You can Tetris a decent amount of wheels and tools into an MR2. I would have liked to have seen how that MK2 MR2 would have fared at Nationals had it not had issues. I'm buying a MK1 SC MR2 (alphabet soup) today for $1500, stock it's rated 150ish HP. If the interior wasn't so nice I'd consider RX once in awhile.

If you're going to run stock then you need to stop at a 16 inch wheel. There are snow tires bigger than that, but not very good ones for RX. The 16 inch Winterforce just won PF. They work well.