Ram EcoDiesel WTF?

So Dodge is coming out with a 3.0 liter diesel that will allow their monstrous pickups to get 28 highway MPG. My first reaction is "Hell yeah! Ram Pickups have been getting a lot of good press lately, and if I can get high 20s gas mileage out of them, maybe it's time to start switching my fleet over!

Then I look them up - Starts at $36,475!

So what does their standard pickup start at? Hmmm, $24,610 and it gets 25 highway mpg. Well obviously you are getting a lot more torque, and hopefully longevity with the Diesel, but it's too damn bad that the technology doesn't make sense for a standard work vehicle. $12,000 pays for a lot of gas.

But whats the difference in options? When you select that same 3.0 Diesel in the Grand Cherokee the price jumps a ton over the base price too, but that's because you have to get a ton of other options along with a minimum of the Limited Package.

And the silver bullet Doge fired came back and hit em in the foot......

But how many $50k 1/2tons do you see rolling down the road vs the bare bones ones? I know I see at least 5-7 of the loaded versions vs 1 cheapo model.

I just built one for $32,700 on Ramtrucks.com...

There is a point to be made about the Ecodiesel not being available at all trim levels and cab configurations etc etc, but in the strictest sense, when the 3.6 and 3.0 ecodiesel are both available on the same truck, the price difference is $2850-4000.

yep, this is not apples to apples for the person trying to buy the cheapest truck possible.

The diesel is a premium option. More torque AND more MPG's.

Same reason people pay more for V8's... and those get WORSE MPG's.

If Dodge was smart, and history isn't on their side on this one, they would put as an available engine across the line.

They may be surprised.

Diesel engines have been hugely expensive in heavy-duty trucks forever. It's part of the reason I think they're "overrated" in the sense that most people who buy them will never make back the difference in fuel mileage. I mean, if it's what you want because of the torque or the sound or whatever, more power to you. But I've never seen the value myself.

Having said that, based on the buzz this engine is getting, Dodge will sell every one they can make. Which, by definition, means it's not overpriced.

Availability may expand if demand justifies it. Or, supply might be limited and the number installed in Rams (vs promaster or grand cherokee etc) might need to be managed. Or the build cost is actually greater than the option cost and Ram is packaging it with other items with strong margins to make sure they don't take a loss.

Lots of possibilities. Im interested to see how it all goes.

You'll never get any gas mileage in an ecodiesel

I understand the marketing side of it. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of only supplying it with the premium packages. "Yeah we're the efficiency/green leaders - if you can afford it." If it's a $3k option as has been asserted above, that's great. I just saw Rams front pages - "starting at...." and took it to heart.

Spangler's right in that like many or most things large, the need isn't there as much as the desire. I imagine that in Wyoming 80 percent of trucks are used for their intended purpose, whereas in much of the country Diesels are lusted after because they're cool to have, or because they represent the possibility of having stuff that would require that sort of towing capacity.

Its a dodge, wait two years and buy it right around the price you want to spend anyway from someone who used it to go mall crawling. 31K is now the average price on a car/truck in the states, I think its cheap and it fits a serious gap. DD say a single cab F350 so that you can haul your boat and fit in your driveway sucks.

I just built one with 3.0 ecodiesel for 27,690.00

3.0 eco is 4000.00 plus 500.00 for 8spd auto

PTIONS EDIT Uconnect® 3.0 AM/FM $0 Heavy Duty Vinyl 40 / 20 / 40 Split Bench Seat $0 17-Inch x 7.0-Inch Steel Wheels $0 P265/70R17 BSW All Season Tires $0 GVW Rating - 6,600 Pounds $0 3.21 Rear Axle Ratio $0 8-Speed TorqueFlite Auto Trans 8HP70 $500 3.0-Liter V6 EcoDiesel Engine $4,000 $4,500

Flight Service wrote: If Dodge was smart, and history isn't on their side on this one, they would put as an available engine across the line. They may be surprised.

I'm pretty sure it's available across the entire line. You can get a tradesman/express with the diesel. $31057 on cars.com, and even that is a crew cab. $31169 for a crew cab SLT. I wish they were cheaper, but that's the deal, I guess. I also wouldn't compare them directly to the v6 gas- those can only really tow around 4150 or so (4wd crew cab), and still get fewer mpgs.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Diesel engines have been hugely expensive in heavy-duty trucks forever. It's part of the reason I think they're "overrated" in the sense that most people who buy them will never make back the difference in fuel mileage. I mean, if it's what you want because of the torque or the sound or whatever, more power to you. But I've never seen the value myself.

Are you kidding? Resale on full-size diesel pickups for the last 25 years means that it doesn't matter if you get 8 mpgs. Forget about mileage.

But, if you insist... Many diesel trucks pay for themselves within 100k easily on fuel cost alone. So, run identical trucks (one gas, on diesel) to 300k miles. That probably means a rebuild on the gas engine, or throwing enough parts at it to equate to a rebuild. The diesel won't. Not to mention, at 300k the gas engine has burned about 40% more fuel than the diesel in its lifetime.

In almost ever case, diesel is a massive win/win. When it comes to buying a diesel, you need more wallet. When it comes to owning/selling a diesel, you will get far more back IN your wallet than with gas.

This whole idea of people calculating their purchase price versus where they'll break even is so remarkably narrow. Even if diesel trucks got HALF the mpg of gas trucks, you would still make more money on resale than you would with gas

curtis73 wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote: Diesel engines have been hugely expensive in heavy-duty trucks forever. It's part of the reason I think they're "overrated" in the sense that most people who buy them will never make back the difference in fuel mileage. I mean, if it's what you want because of the torque or the sound or whatever, more power to you. But I've never seen the value myself.

Are you kidding? Resale on full-size diesel pickups for the last 25 years means that it doesn't matter if you get 8 mpgs. Forget about mileage. But, if you insist... Many diesel trucks pay for themselves within 100k easily on fuel cost alone. So, run identical trucks (one gas, on diesel) to 300k miles. That probably means a rebuild on the gas engine, or throwing enough parts at it to equate to a rebuild. The diesel won't. Not to mention, at 300k the gas engine has burned about 40% more fuel than the diesel in its lifetime. In almost ever case, diesel is a massive win/win. When it comes to buying a diesel, you need more wallet. When it comes to owning/selling a diesel, you will get far more back IN your wallet than with gas. This whole idea of people calculating their purchase price versus where they'll break even is so remarkably narrow. Even if diesel trucks got HALF the mpg of gas trucks, you would still make more money on resale than you would with gas

you're kidding … right ?

the reason the resale value is higher is 3 fold … more torque (same as the reason for new purchase), BETTER FUEL MILEAGE (same as the new purchase), and longer life of the engine (same as the new purchase)

the down side (other that initial price, and the price of the fuel/urea) is the greater expense of maintenance/upkeep

if you need the towing capacity, then not much can beat the diesel … if you just need a truck for … you know … I need a truck … then gas is probably a better choice, since that type of person usually isn't going to keep the truck for 300 - 500k miles

I'm seeing the eco trucks as being priced similarly. a longbed regular cab Ford Ecoboost is 27.1 and a Ram EcoDiesel regular cab longbed is 27.8. Move to a super/quad cab and it's 32.7 vs. 31.0(or 5%). New trucks are just plain expensive.

and it's my understanding … from being flamed when I complain about how expensive new trucks are, that NO ONE pays anywhere near sticker price for new trucks … so ….

In reply to wbjones:

Especially in Detroit. Since everyone and their brother works for the big 3 down here you find on used lots or craigslist LOADED vehicles that an employee got for cheap then unloads after a short time.

curtis73 wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote: Diesel engines have been hugely expensive in heavy-duty trucks forever. It's part of the reason I think they're "overrated" in the sense that most people who buy them will never make back the difference in fuel mileage. I mean, if it's what you want because of the torque or the sound or whatever, more power to you. But I've never seen the value myself.

Are you kidding? Resale on full-size diesel pickups for the last 25 years means that it doesn't matter if you get 8 mpgs. Forget about mileage. But, if you insist... Many diesel trucks pay for themselves within 100k easily on fuel cost alone. So, run identical trucks (one gas, on diesel) to 300k miles. That probably means a rebuild on the gas engine, or throwing enough parts at it to equate to a rebuild. The diesel won't. Not to mention, at 300k the gas engine has burned about 40% more fuel than the diesel in its lifetime. In almost ever case, diesel is a massive win/win. When it comes to buying a diesel, you need more wallet. When it comes to owning/selling a diesel, you will get far more back IN your wallet than with gas. This whole idea of people calculating their purchase price versus where they'll break even is so remarkably narrow. Even if diesel trucks got HALF the mpg of gas trucks, you would still make more money on resale than you would with gas

I'll grant you resale, but if you have to drive it until it has 100k on it for it to pay for itself in fuel mileage, an awful lot of people aren't going to make it, because not a lot of people keep a vehicle that long before something newer and shinier catches their eye. 300k? Forget it, the number of people who keep a vehicle that long is minuscule.

And besides, this isn't the old days where Powerstroke 7.3s got 20mpg and the alternative 460 got 10. Gas engines are much more efficient than they used to be. Not to mention the higher cost of diesel fuel, the need for urea, more expensive oil changes, etc. And I know diesel engines are built stronger, but that's out of necessity because the combustion event in diesel is more violent. Do diesel engines really last longer than gas engines these days, or is that a perception based on older technology, as well?

I think it depends on your use as well. A diesel will not fare as well sitting most of the time, they are better when used more often. I can let my gas engine sit for a while inbetween uses and its fine, the diesel would get a bit angry.

In the 1500, the eco-D tows 1K less than the top hemi. It made me chuckle a bit.

In reply to neon4891:

I wonder if axle configuration plays a role in that though.

In reply to fidelity101:

Our '99 psd sits alot now that dad got a '13 psd, but it has yet to get "angry" about sitting.

The biggest thing here is "Is the ram's ecodiesel built like an actual truck diesel(relatively strong) or a car's diesel(less strong)?" I'd love to see the 3.2L I5 powerstroke in an f150, but with the two ecoboost options, thats highly unlikely.

Tom_Spangler wrote: And besides, this isn't the old days where Powerstroke 7.3s got 20mpg and the alternative 460 got 10.

Well... the ecodiesel has been tested towing 7000lbs through the mountains on a controlled loop vs a comparable gas truck, mpg? 20usmpg for the diesel, about 12 for the gas.

For people that haul a lot, and will keep the truck 100k+ miles, its definitely worth it. For everyday driving? In Canada, I can buy a quad cab 4x4 5.3L chebby for $25k and it gets 21usmpg on the highway, 16 in the city. Cheapest ecodiesel I can find is at least $35k. $10k buys a lot in fuel... and with the way trucks hold value up here, the resale thing isn't nearly as big of a deal when 200k mile crew cab 1/2 tons sell for $6k-$8k anyday of the week.