Hey, road racers, if you look down on autocross, then you are just ignorant! Now, that doesn’t mean stupid, it means you just don’t know.
Everything in autocross translates to road racing in a most beneficial way. And proof of concept: Autocrossers always make better road racers, and r…
I haven't done any road racing yet, though I can confirm that autocross felt like a different animal from driving on track.
I loved laying down lap after lap on track, but for autocross, it all comes at you so quickly and you have so little time to learn the course and improve.
I have always been a road race guy who happens to autocross. Read my focus is track events; I typically do 4-5 autocrosses a year and 7-8 track events.
I still go to autocross because it's fun but also because it teaches you how to go fast on cold tires; this is a huge advantage against road racers who drive to slow on the first lap.
From 2014 to 2023 I had a dedicated autocross car in the Formula 500 / F-Mod, yet if it's a choice I will always pick a track event first.
Only thing I would change on the statement is "good" autocrossers always make better road racers.
Discussed this more with Randy at Pikes Peak. He still stands by it, and I can’t disagree.
David S. Wallens said:Discussed this more with Randy at Pikes Peak. He still stands by it, and I can’t disagree.
I really don't either; a parallel is motorcycle trials riders always make the best enduro riders / off road racers.
The only reason I am a bit contrary is I've instructed several local autocrossers at track days who were, not necessarily winning but finishing well and they were horrendously rough with their brake pedal release. Because things happen so quickly with autocross they weren't even aware they were doing this.
My most favorite autocross student I've instructed was a guy who raced sprint cars; after a couple of practice drills he commented "this is a completely different mindset" and that stuck with me.
You know I really like autocross. Its a completely different challenge, but in a fun way. Randy is right there are thing you learn in one but not the other. The strategies are really different too. I spend more time on road courses, but that has more to do with seat time ratio and not liking shagging cones on hot asphalt.
Tom1200 said:The only reason I am a bit contrary is I've instructed several local autocrossers at track days who were, not necessarily winning but finishing well and they were horrendously rough with their brake pedal release. Because things happen so quickly with autocross they weren't even aware they were doing this.
Randy has more knowledge in his balaclava than I have in my entire life, so I will defer to him. I also agree with Tom, and I guess maybe it comes from being able to apply learned autox knowledge to road racing. I deal with autox people all the time and the overwhelming majority are very rough on the controls and need a lot of coaching. However, I'm reading and rereading his comments in this thread to see what I can learn/relearn from autox to make me a better road course guy.
Randy, racing in Atlanta soon or want to come out to Xtreme Xperience again?
I've no dog in this fight, but I do wonder how much the rise of cheap data acquisition helps road racers with the immediate feedback that autocrossers get.
Something not touched on, that I use to sometimes brutal effect in rallycross, is being able to see what works and what doesn't while working a corner. Or seeing everyone make what looks like the same mistake over and over and trying what you think is a better line when you put the flag and radio down and put the helmet and seat belt on. You might not see the times but you can see what people are doing at a given course feature, entering late here or early there, how much speed people are maintaining or sacrificing for a benefit elsewhere, and get a feel for how best to navigate and make it through in the least amount of time.
I’ll second that working corners at an autocross has helped me–basically gives me a sneak peek as to what works/doesn’t work.
Many of the track guys I know speak poorly of autocross, my assumption is that they're not good at it - so it's a waste of time to stand in a hot parking lot for half a day for 3 minutes of drive time.
My first track day after a couple years of autocrossing - everything happened so slowly. Yes I was going faster, but there seemed to be unlimited time between elements. And if I wanted to try something different on a turn... I could on the next lap, and then again on the lap after that. And the track was the same the next session, and the next event.
I think autocross also teaches you to release your hands. Saw a video of Randy driving a Porsche at COTA and it made me feel much better about my hand management and hybrid shuffling.
thashane said:Many of the track guys I know speak poorly of autocross, my assumption is that they're not good at it - so it's a waste of time to stand in a hot parking lot for half a day for 3 minutes of drive time.
TBH that sounds like lot of rationalization. I won my club autocross championship and still think standing in a parking lot all day for 3 minutes of drive time is a bad deal time wise. But, Of course the only reason they don't like what I like is they are bad!
If we want to make equally snarky assumptions about autocrossers, we can say they are only doing it because they can't afford to run road courses. I know 100% that's true for some people I know but also that some people genuinely enjoy the competition and more frantic pace.
In reply to theruleslawyer :
After seeing what some people spend on autocross to win a 50 cent trophy and bragging rights, I don't think the "lol cheap" rule applies 
I started my automotive fun career with track days... I can second the notion posted upthread that time on course can get boring, with how far apart the corners are. OTOH I also used to drive 3-4 hours to get to Hocking Hills to drive around on public roads for a half hour then drive home... so really, it's always just going to be a matter of perspective and what a person values most. Speed is boring, acceleration forces to the left and right (and up and down) are interesting, and I've been that way since playing on bikes in the woods And I work with people who are the exact opposite, they like to go fast without the tedious corners to slow them down. Autocross would be horrible for them, but they'd probably love to race at a place like Avus, or a superspeedway for the American equivalent.
The beauty is, there's a form that suits everyone's interests.
Autocross has been my secondary education in how to drive. I came from a couple decades of virtual road racing and rally experience (poor kid with a Playstation, you work with what you have), and I learned SO much within a couple years of dodging cones.
I had to break my habit of cornering super wide to carry momentum, and learned that shaving feet shaves seconds, even in a low power car. It was counterintuitive, at first, but the stop watch doesn't lie...
In reply to te72 :
Don't discount sim racing... there are some good and up and coming racers who got their start in sim rigs. And while you don't get the inner ear sensations that cause all of the happy brain chemicals, you do definitely get that "instant feedback" from the split times.
Looking down at other forms of motorsports is just silly.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to theruleslawyer :
After seeing what some people spend on autocross to win a 50 cent trophy and bragging rights, I don't think the "lol cheap" rule applies
All motorsport is expensive. Still the cost to win a national trophy for road course stuff is a whole other level than being able to goto nats with an almost stock car. I'm not trying to say its better because it costs more or anything, but there is a substantial difference in cost. I probably spend as much on two track days in fees and consumables as I do in an entire season of autocross. And those track days aren't 'maximum effort' like I've done for autox.
In reply to theruleslawyer :
You are not wrong. If you race a Formula 600 / F-mod car you can buy a car that can win for 9K.
Pretty sure you can't do that with road racing.
I like to say:
"If driving on a road course is like getting into a fight with your brother, autocross is when your brother boxes Golden Gloves."
This does not apply to racing.
theruleslawyer said:All motorsport is expensive. Still the cost to win a national trophy for road course stuff is a whole other level than being able to goto nats with an almost stock car. I'm not trying to say its better because it costs more or anything, but there is a substantial difference in cost. I probably spend as much on two track days in fees and consumables as I do in an entire season of autocross. And those track days aren't 'maximum effort' like I've done for autox.
And you can probably do 5 or 6 of those track days for what a regional wheel-to-wheel road racing weekend will cost.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Don't discount sim racing... there are some good and up and coming racers who got their start in sim rigs. And while you don't get the inner ear sensations that cause all of the happy brain chemicals, you do definitely get that "instant feedback" from the split times.
Sim rigs are, in some ways, much harder than driving a real car. Yes, there's no risk of killing yourself, but there's also no depth perception for brake points (unless you go VR), and no physical sensation of yaw to give you early warning on oversteer.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:theruleslawyer said:All motorsport is expensive. Still the cost to win a national trophy for road course stuff is a whole other level than being able to goto nats with an almost stock car. I'm not trying to say its better because it costs more or anything, but there is a substantial difference in cost. I probably spend as much on two track days in fees and consumables as I do in an entire season of autocross. And those track days aren't 'maximum effort' like I've done for autox.
And you can probably do 5 or 6 of those track days for what a regional wheel-to-wheel road racing weekend will cost.
No doubt. I know a lot of mid level series cost more than my car per weekend.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Oh, no disrespect to sim racing whatsoever. I credit it to teaching me how to drive, honestly. Being a passenger without distractions as a kid taught me navigation. Combined... I wasn't a half bad driver right out the gate. That said, autocrossing my Miata for my second season of autocross taught me an entirely new world existed. I thought I knew how to drive a Miata before...
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
The lack of bodily sensation is my one gripe when it comes to sim racing. There are very high end sim setups that can emulate it, though my experience with those is very limited.
A good wheel can give you a decent sensation of what your tires are doing though. Mine is a direct drive Fanatec that is very quick to alter the resistance in turns when your tires start disagreeing with your actions haha.
I like autocross because of the low risk level. There aren't any trees or walls to hit, generally, and you can push to 101% on each and every run. If you spin, it's just fun, or maybe embarrassing, but you don't write off your car. That makes it very low stress. I think of it as a vacation from more 'serious' racing where I'm wearing a fire suit and a Hans. Yes, I might spend a bunch of time standing in a field, but I'll be so relaxed! The cost to my mistakes will be zero, which encourages me to push hard enough to make mistakes, which is where I learn the most.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
We had some hotshot sim racer/coaching guy fly in from the UK to rent a seat in our LDRC Mosport weekend along with a couple other sim racers renting stints in the same car and its sister car.
The hotshot dive bombed us from a mile back into 5a resulting in a bunch of dents and 2 broken wheels for us.
Over the weekend the level of mayhem he and the other sim guys caused was shocking and bloody dangerous.
One was a bmw in the wall between 1 and 2 and a sim guy racing past multiple yellows and passing cars before nearly t-boning the ambulance at speed at the exit of 1.
I'm sure there's damn good sim guys that transition seamlessly into the real world but these guys weren't them
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