"rebuilding" an 18 year old car

Alright...

The Celica has been sitting dormant for quite some time now. Now that we're getting a house with a huge garage, it's time for me to start getting a list together of things i'll need.

I'm planning on taking the thing down to a shell and going back up.

Here's a list of what i've got on the list/in my closet right now:

1) New brakes all around. Pads, rotors, calipers, lines, master cylinder
2) New suspension bushings all around (may or may not use, depends how well the delrins bushings that are in there have held up over the years)
3) Tie rods, ball joints, may replace the swaybar endlinks and bushings

Now, the big question for today, followed by another smaller:

Stupid idea/waste of money for me to remove ALL suspension arms and replace them with new? Or would just taking them all off the car, cleaning them up/painting/whatever and using all new hardware (nuts, bolts, washers) be sufficient?

For what it's worth, the car is easily alignable within factory specs, there's no rust, and nothing looks bent. Drove fine the last time i drove it.

If i could find the arms on rockauto for cheap like i can for the other cars, i'd just go ahead and do it, but i'm looking at a minimum of $1000 to have all the arms shipped to me in this case.

Anything else that i should go ahead and replace while i'm in there? Keep in mind that the main reason for the tear down is that it's receiving a new drivetrain from motor to trans to axles. It's had new coilovers w/ mounts and camber plates and swaybars within the last 5000 miles, so i don't think attention is needed there.

I'm just trying to eliminate any of the "Duh, i should have fixed THAT while i was in there, and now it's broke" situations.

you havent really addressed fuel - after 18 years I would say a new tank, in tank pump and some new lines may be in order. My 95 carolla's tank began to leak at the seam where the 2 halve were welded together (1 of 2 main reasons I parted ways with said car) - I wouldnt put it past a celica thats older still.

Maybe door hardware..are they sagging? Weather stripping? Also, non drivetrain essentials like radiator and steering rack etc that wont be worked when the Engine/trans are installed may warrant at least a once over.

I would say that since you'll have the car up on stands for awhile and you're replacing all of the rubber and hardware, a clean and repaint/powder coat should be fine. Unless you find inexpensive parts you don't have to refurbish, I don't see any reason to replace good, it only dirty, parts.

My main warning is about the "snowball effect": You touch one part and then the part attached to that looks like crap... and then the one attached to that... and the next thing you know, the engine is out, the engine bay is stipped, the subframe and suspension bits are getting bead-blasted, and you're 5 months into a 2 week project... BTDT.

BTDT as well. Currently 7 months into a crappy Supra...

I'm starting to snowball with my Jeep. Started out as a freeze plug, and now I'm up to a whole new cooling system, new u-joints, and I really want to put in new floorboards.

I'd just clean and install fresh hardware. No reason to go further than that if it's just dirty.

Platinum90 wrote: BTDT as well. Currently 7 months into a crappy Supra...

i assume youre currently in the process of editing your fully photo-documented restoration writeup right? RIGHT?

4cylndrfury wrote: you havent really addressed fuel - after 18 years I would say a new tank, in tank pump and some new lines may be in order. My 95 carolla's tank began to leak at the seam where the 2 halve were welded together (1 of 2 main reasons I parted ways with said car) - I wouldnt put it past a celica thats older still. Maybe door hardware..are they sagging? Weather stripping? Also, non drivetrain essentials like radiator and steering rack etc that wont be worked when the Engine/trans are installed may warrant at least a once over.

Good point on the first one. New pump is already in my closet, and i'll be running stainless lines up to a dual-feed rail. The tank itself is solid to the best of my knowledge. I will keep it in mind when i'm under there, though. Tanks aren't horribly expensive for this car, or i could just throw a fuel cell in there.

Doors are good. Weather stripping is passage, but the windshield and rear window seals need to be redone. I need a new windshield anyways, so that'll take care of the front. I'll probably just silicone the rear.

Was planning on pulling the rack to properly de-power while i was in there, nice catch.

Radiator... i'm working on. Trying to find an aftermarket unit, but none exist. So i need to take measurements and see what i can cram in there. I'm not about to use the stock GT radiator on a fire-breathing Caldina GT4 motor.

Excellent!

Ian F wrote: I would say that since you'll have the car up on stands for awhile and you're replacing all of the rubber and hardware, a clean and repaint/powder coat should be fine. Unless you find inexpensive parts you don't have to refurbish, I don't see any reason to replace good, it only dirty, parts. My main warning is about the "snowball effect": You touch one part and then the part attached to that looks like crap... and then the one attached to that... and the next thing you know, the engine is out, the engine bay is stipped, the subframe and suspension bits are getting bead-blasted, and you're 5 months into a 2 week project... BTDT.

Oh for sure... i'm not real worried about the snowball effect, though. This car is REALLY clean, and the only rust underneath is surface rust on said suspension arms. I am a little worried about what my OCD is going to do to me when i start on the interior, though.

Thanks for the input on the arms. I was hoping someone would say that. It was cheap for me to just buy new loaded arms for the MX6 (under $100 shipped including all hardware, rubber, and ball joints! For a PAIR!!!!), but rockauto doesn't carry them for the celica, the only source i've found was a dealer which = rape.

I'd be ecstatic if this took two weeks. I'm looking at starting end of october, hopefully starting the car with the new motor by April.

4cylndrfury wrote:

Platinum90 wrote: BTDT as well. Currently 7 months into a crappy Supra...

i assume youre currently in the process of editing your fully photo-documented restoration writeup right? RIGHT?

Heh, always one of my pet peeves, too. I'll be doing that with the Smellica.

The MX6, i've been slacking. Mainly because i really don't give a rat's ass about the car, nor am i that proud of it.

93celicaGT2 wrote: I'd be ecstatic if this took two weeks. I'm looking at starting end of october, hopefully starting the car with the new motor by April.

First rule of restoration: It will likely cost twice as much and take twice as long as planned.

Ian_F wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: I'd be ecstatic if this took two weeks. I'm looking at starting end of october, hopefully starting the car with the new motor by April.

First rule of restoration: It will likely cost twice as much and take twice as long as planned.

That would SUCK. $12k, 12 months?

But in all seriousness, if i just saved and waited until i had ALL the parts, i'm pretty confident i could knock the whole thing out in a month or less. I'm just going to take it slow and make sure everything is done right. This is a build i've been gearing up and been in the middle of for YEARS now, and i'm finally going to get it done. I'm REALLY psyched to tear into it.

I'm not sure I'd let it be publically known you're planning to spend $12K on a 18 year old Celica.

Ian_F wrote: I'm not sure I'd let it be publically known you're planning to spend $12K on a 18 year old Celica.

No no no... i'm PLANNING to spend $6k.

And if i must be honest... i've probably already got $8k into the thing.

Just think... this was originally supposed to be a Challenge car, since i bought it for $600. BRILLIANT!!!!

isnt there an analogy about biting your nose on your face or some cart and horse thing thats popular to say to people when theyre obviously berzerk and have no business near a car or wrenches or credit cards or something?

I cant remember it so it must not be important that must mean you should go for it!

When you remove the bushings from the arms, if the inside surface is clean, then no reason to replace them. But, if it is all gouged up from someone's failed attempt to remove bushings with a jackhammer, then replace them. They will just eat up the new bushings.

Don't forget the other rubber, the transmission mounts and engine mounts, and perhaps shifter bushings. On the MR2, the rear engine mount was shot and what a difference a new one made! Same for the transmission. An engine rocking back and forth is not cool.

If you take it down to the shell, pressure wash, clean, and maybe even paint the engine bay. It will never be easier.

pinchvalve wrote: When you remove the bushings from the arms, if the inside surface is clean, then no reason to replace them. But, if it is all gouged up from someone's failed attempt to remove bushings with a jackhammer, then replace them. They will just eat up the new bushings. Don't forget the other rubber, the transmission mounts and engine mounts, and perhaps shifter bushings. On the MR2, the rear engine mount was shot and what a difference a new one made! Same for the transmission. An engine rocking back and forth is not cool. If you take it down to the shell, pressure wash, clean, and maybe even paint the engine bay. It will never be easier.

Yep, i actually have delrin shifter bushings sitting in the closet of goodies as well. All the transmission and engine mounts will be replaced with SpeedSource units since i'm sick of trying to get the Kirkosaurus inserts to do anything worth a damn.

Thanks for the tip on the arms. In the event that they are gouged, would it be worth it at all to try to smooth it out, taking care to not remove too much metal ending up with arms that the new bushings don't even fit in?

I just did the full mechanical on my '90 Miata, and cosmetic re-resto on the '62 Sprite.

I made a list of every part I could think of that would either be necessary, a good idea "while I'm there" or "never easier to get to" - and did all of it. It was sort of a resto-mod where much of what was replaced was uprated, ie. energy urethane in place of rubber for bushings, Flyin' Miata stage 2.5 suspension kit. The completed car drives better than a new one and is a joy.

The Sprite was getting a tidy-up 12 or so years post-total restoration. It had accrued a lot of garage rash and one corner got a bit crunched in a rolling-out mishap. Once the body was painted, cut and buffed and the trim was back on, new carpets mostly in - the sorry state of the under hood was too much to bear. I pulled the engine/trans/suspension/brakes - shot the under hood, resealed the engine and trans, detailed it, and had the lever shocks rebuilt.

Since I was there I finally addressed the spring rates and ride height (formerly much too high and much too low respectively) and the wrong bore master cylinder.

This car will be able to be driven on the street without being a huge pain in the ass when it's finished, and will need nothing any time soon.

It's nice to just do it all right the first time, and I've demonstrated time and time over decades it's always cheaper in the end.

(Cheaper does not mean "right side up on car valuation based on any established guidelines" in this case. Just cheaper than having to take the whole freakin' car back apart to replace that rear main seal that was "only a couple years old")

4 Months into a 2nd Gen RX7

"First rule of restoration: It will likely cost twice as much and take twice as long as planned."

He speaks the truth...

19 year old Escort rebuild here! I never planned it this way, just happened. Never had a plan that has "done" as the last entry. I only add "next" and have fun with that. Last job...fix the door hinges! current job...polish the paint and paint the trim. next...heater core!

My big problem is that I get sidetracked and do extra stuff for each job. Hinges included new headlights and front bumper. Replacing the steering rack turned into a full suspension rebuild. Of course the heater core will become the new stereo install and a big interior clean.

My brother casually mentioned that while I have the trim off it would be a good time to tint the windows.....I would punch him in the head, but I was thinking the same thing.

At least I am not behind schedule or over budget.

Bruce

In reply to egnorant:

Details? Amusingly, i also have a 1993 Escort GT that will also be going under the knife this winter. (Yes, i have my plate full)

My first reaction was that it may not be valid to rant about my daily driver on this forum....but then I realized how much this site steered my work on this car.

If during its 10 year rebuild I could replace worn parts with proper upgrades, I did so! It has been logically rebuilt to a purpose. Delivering pizza! 3rd gen front subframe with poly bushing and a manual rack..changed the rear subrame for a Tracer LTS for the disc brakes and changed the sway bar 3 times...smaller to get the handling I wanted. Played with the Lexan rear vent windows, Lighter wheel and better tire choice was a recent passion due to articles in the magazine.

Adding lightness has been touched on by completely removing the nonfunctional R12 air unit. Have a 88 GT drivers seat that hold much better than the 91 Pony slab and am seeking better seat belt setup as the factory setup just (insert expletive, action and naughty bit here).

Heaven help me when I get the turbo plan started. Thinking of a Junkyard Jam of a 1.8...fun huh?

Did the "Trash to Treasure" cleanup long before the article came out (Miata content!) We call it a Spa Day around here.

I payed $250 for this car in 2000 and it is still a blast to drive with 346,927.6 miles on the original engine.

Bruce

3 years and not sure anymore and still scambling to finsh up my track horror to try to get once ride in anger before the end of the season right now. and i am thinking of asking someone else just to get the last few things down just to get it done and running right....sigh.....