Reliability comparison, 986 Boxster S vs S2000 AP1

Boxhead Tim's original post asked about reliability. Boxsters aren't as bad as the interweb would have you believe. But all reports on S2000 reliability are top-notch.

I would quibble on your statement that the S2000 would DD better. Boxsters are extremely livable. The two trunks gobble tons of stuff. The interior is >not< claustrophobic like the S2000. Yes, the windshield header slightly blocks your view forward. But I could very easily DD a Boxster. The S2000 has annoying steering, the knee panel bangs me every time I heel-and-toe, and I feel cramped in there and I'm only 5'9" and 150 pounds. And the Boxster is waaay better looking. Also, torque is your DD friend and the S2000 ain't got it.

I'm not bashing the S2000, I like them, too. But the Boxster is an awesome value.

David

[edited to add >not<]

In my experience, when one is trying to choose between a Honda and any other make in terms of "reliability" and "not messing up," it is hard to go wrong with one of Soichiro's vehicles. The S2000 also has a soul.

Well, back from the PPI and it looks like one of Sochiro's vehicles instead. Time to try and arrange a PPI on the AP1.

Basically, driving it for a couple of hours to the PPI and back suggested that the ergonomics don't agree with me much, plus the PPI found a little more than I am willing to pay to fix, even after the owner generously knocked off some more off the price. If it had me all excited I probably would have considered getting the various issues fixed/investigated further, but it left me a bit 'meh'. Add to this that I'd probably have to splurge on a set of GT3 seats or similar, it just wasn't for me.

That said, if someone is after a low-mileage 2001 Boxster S for a good price (well below KBB) and is willing to put some work in, I'd be happy to put you in touch with the owner.

If I can concentrate that long on one vehicle as the shop I took the Boxster to had an ad on the wall for a low-mileage '74 BMW 2002 for not very much money because it doesn't appear to pass smog up in Reno. But there are no smog checks down here...

Hmm. I wonder if the wife would notice if I bought two cars instead of one.

njansenv wrote: The reliability factor of the S2000 would sway me for anything but toy use - nothing kills the fun of a fun daily driver more than shop time and shop bills. I don't always have time to fix the daily myself, which can mean paying shop rate to get it done.

Basically I prefer not to put myself under the stress of fixing my daily driver (even though I do a lot of the work on my summer DD motorcycle) and the added advantage of the Honda is that the closest dealer is about 15 miles away, whereas both the closest Porsche specialist and dealer are both up in Reno, a good fifty miles and over an hour away...

njansenv wrote: And Stacey (Porsche snob ;) ) prefers Aircooled P-cars.

I really like my G50 Carrera 3.2 to the extend that there's going to be another aircooled one in my future, but at the moment I need something I can take to work most days ("every day" would require Subaru or a Lancer Evo).

BoxheadTim wrote: I really like my G50 Carrera 3.2 to the extend that there's going to be another aircooled one in my future, but at the moment I need something I can take to work most days ("every day" would require Subaru or a Lancer Evo).

I seem to recall you saying that you hadn't sold your 911 in the UK yet. If that's the case, have you considered ponying up to bring your G50 Carrera over here? I thought by the G50 cars Porsche had gone to a common global spec. There are certain cars that get an exemption from the EPA/DOT on the 25 year rule as they are the same here and in Europe, I'm sure the 964 is one, not sure on the late 911's. Even if you do have to wait until it's 25 years old, it's not that far in the future, especialy if it's an early G50 car.

If you've got another oil cooler coming, you might find your DD choice easing up.

Oh, and I know a couple of people with RHD cars and they say it's no issue DDing over here with them. I never had a problem back in theUK with LHD cars either.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: I really like my G50 Carrera 3.2 to the extend that there's going to be another aircooled one in my future, but at the moment I need something I can take to work most days ("every day" would require Subaru or a Lancer Evo).

I seem to recall you saying that you hadn't sold your 911 in the UK yet. If that's the case, have you considered ponying up to bring your G50 Carrera over here? I thought by the G50 cars Porsche had gone to a common global spec. There are certain cars that get an exemption from the EPA/DOT on the 25 year rule as they are the same here and in Europe, I'm sure the 964 is one, not sure on the late 911's. Even if you do have to wait until it's 25 years old, it's not that far in the future, especialy if it's an early G50 car. If you've got another oil cooler coming, you might find your DD choice easing up.

No, it's still an ROW spec car, I think they went to full global spec with the 964 as you mentioned.

It's not eligible for the 25 year rule yet (it's an '88) but I'll see how the sale in the UK goes - if I don't get the money I'd want I might consider bringing it in, but given the hassle I've had with the bikes re their insurance I'm not too sure it's a good idea, especially given the number of rust free old 911s over in CA.

I've driven that car on the continent a lot so I'm not too fussed about it being RHD.

FYI - Your 911 is already on the EPA exemption list:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/elig050108.pdf

Page 20:

"Porsche 911 Carrera 1983-1989 56 90-01-VE-No.03"

Bring it in.

In reply to Javelin:

Dangit, that changes things (it's actually a Targa, but that's on the list as well). Guess I'll better check on Pelican if someone can recommend a registered importer to see how much that'll cost me.

Regarding the original question... my dad recently made the same decision, although he threw a C5Z06 in there for good measure as well.

He settled on an AP2 S2000 and couldn't be happier. We discussed a bunch of options, and like you've discovered, it's hard to choose one over the other. We eventually decided that the cost of ownership for the Honda would be lower, due to cheaper parts, availability of dealers, and ease of maintenance (Every time I work on a Boxster, I'm always swearing at how hard to access the engine is).

I would say s2k personally, IF there is a difference between the two, it is MINOR... that being said cost make the s2k the winner: Review by a guy who admittedly owns a S2k but deffinitly gives the PBS a few nods and seems pretty unbiased: http://s2000.com/forums/all-other-honda-s2000-related-discussions/5965-boxster-s-vs-s2000-quick-dirty.html

S2K around nurbirgring runs a 8:39 PBS 8:32

So that is a .9865% difference in lap times with a pro driver.... so yeah performance wise i would aruge there is no debate to be had, its gonna come down to cost vs feel for YOU and what YOU like better...

I've pretty much decided on an S2k (at least in comparison with a Boxster) but the one I had high hopes for seems to have just about zero maintenance history. That's not very promising

Eh.... if it runs and drives well, and looks fine, and is a good price. Buy it anyways. They're easy to work on and hold up very well.

The price is a little high for something that's most likely going to need a 30k service for a grand straight away (it's a few hundred over blue book).

TBH I'm having second thoughts about a yellow AP2 I also looked at, that one has fewer miles on it, one owner and a ton of paperwork. It's also got some damage to the front mask that might bother me, though, and is overpriced for that.

BoxheadTim wrote: The price is a little high for something that's most likely going to need a 30k service for a grand straight away (it's a few hundred over blue book).

Where'd you see that? From what I can find on the internet, 30K service for an S2K is nothing more than fluid changes and an inspection. That's easily driveway-level.

I don't trust a car if I can't see the engine without a jack and jackstands. So, Honda. And also, 9K RPM > whatever zee German car revs to.

I have a 2000 S2000 with 71K miles. It has been trouble free and I used it this year as a DD. I'm 6'1"" and 230# and don't feel cramped in there. As was noted, check the maintenance schedule. It has been very inexpensive to maintain. I had a customer with a Boxster and based on their experience and having driven said car, I give the nod to the S2K. In the interest of full disclosure, I have also owned and raced an S600 and daily driven an S600 and S800.

Don49 wrote: In the interest of full disclosure, I have also owned and raced an S600 and daily driven an S600 and S800.

I demand photos.

Woody wrote:

Don49 wrote: In the interest of full disclosure, I have also owned and raced an S600 and daily driven an S600 and S800.

I demand photos.

Seconded.

unevolved wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: The price is a little high for something that's most likely going to need a 30k service for a grand straight away (it's a few hundred over blue book).

Where'd you see that? From what I can find on the internet, 30K service for an S2K is nothing more than fluid changes and an inspection. That's easily driveway-level.

That's what the service writer at the local Honda dealer told me, but I think he quoted me on the 30k service plus additional work that might be needed rather than the 30k service on its own.

A dealer is the absolute last person I'd trust when it comes to the expected cost of a service. Look in the book, the official schedule is nothing but fluids, filters and inspections for the first 105k, aside from a note to perform a valve adjustment "if noisy", otherwise valve adjustment is done at 105k on the schedule. I had mine done when I bought the car at 83k, but only because I had the valve spring retainers replaced as a precautionary measure. They can crack in an overrev, and it's hard to see if they're cracked without just replacing them. I had a chance to stop at the shop of a well regarded S2K specialist on my way home with the car, so I figured I might as well get the retainers/adjustment done by an expert instead of leaving the job to a local dealer who probably only sees a couple of these things a year. In the end, I was a lot more picky with the car than I needed to be, the retainers I took out were perfect, the valves were still within spec, and I haven't had a bit of trouble with the car in the time I've had it. Can't recommend them highly enough.

I have autocrossed and done lap days in my 04 Boxster for years and it's been nothing less than amazing. We have had some breakages Due to hard launches on R comps but repairs were not expensive. CV bolts came loose and the flopping axle took out an entire cast aluminum subframe, cost $100 for another one from Oklahoma Foreign. Replaced the clutch, brake pads and discs as a precaution before Nationals and total cost was $700 and total repair time was 4 hours and did it myself. Turns out all the old stuff was still perfect despite all the racing. And the car is pleasant on long road trips and holds a ton of stuff. Heck, I put an entire Sport suspension in the car for $900 new from Suncoast Porsche which includes struts, springs and sway bars(all Porsche parts btw)