Repeat After Me....

When I worked in the truck shop, we called 'em 'DuPont overhauls', because most of the time the dirt under the paint could still be seen/scraped off. If it had a shiny paint job and questionable quality, it was a 'DuPont overhaul'. No disrepect intended to DuPont.

Opus wrote: I always check to see if it is rebuilt or remanufactured. If remanufactured, I run away.

Opus, what is the difference between "rebuilt" and "remanufactured?" Within that industry is there a specific meaning to each of those terms?

Thanks!

David

The saga continues.......So I installed the replacement rack and it just blew up big time. The rack made a complete mess of my driveway and the street in front of my house. NAPA told me they'd get me yet another rack but I started thinking about the famous definition of insanity and didn't want to go through that again.

When I brought the second dud rack back in, I asked for my money back and a core as well. After all, I walked in with 150 bucks and a core so I wasn't leaving with just 150 bucks. They told me they needed the dead player back for credit. I told them I didn't care which core I got, I just wanted a core so I could apply the value to my next rack.

The manager, sensing business was going out the door, offered to buy me a rack from another jobber. Since I needed to get the car done before work tomorrow, I said okay. They had it for me in thirty minutes.

The new rack was a thing of beauty packed in a sealed plastic bag with each piece colored just like the original. No "Dupont overhaul" here. Most importantly. it had a "tested" sticker with the date and the inspector ID on it. I swear you could hear the cherubim and seraphim singing when we opened the box.

I took it home, installed it, clocked it, and bled it. I could tell everything would be fine when it bled in like four seconds. The rack works just like God and Sochiro Honda intended.

Thanks to NAPA in Glendale, CA for going the extra mile and making sure I left with a good product. They took a little beating from me earlier in this thread but they came through and deserve recognition for service. After all, when I walked out of there with the first rack, they weren't crossing their fingers hoping the rack would last out the guarantee. They expected the unit they sold me was a good product and were surprised when it wasn't.

They also gave me three pints of Honda power steering fluid on the house.

Keeping my fingers crossed,

Jerry

I can honestly say Ive never had a bad experience at a NAPA store - Typically they seem to genuinely care. Not sure where snot-o-zone gets the ...well we can just call them corkys...but I hope NAPA stays far FAR away from that end of the gene pool when it comes to recruiting.

The final rack is OEM?

914Driver wrote: The final rack is OEM?

No, it was another jobber who, from all appearances, looks like they actually cared. Instead of being spray painted black, each component looked like the OEM unit. The valve body was its natural color and only the rack tube was black. They used all new hardware to bolt the rack together. Even the packaging was higher quality with a sealed plastic bag inside a really good box.

I'm sure the rack cost more to rebuild than the first two but I wonder why NAPA isn't doing business with these guys on a regular basis, especially on this older stuff.

Whenever there's a problem like this, parts guys always think the buyer might be doing something wrong. I installed this rack just like the other two using the same procedures. Now I can go back and show them their current jobber is not very good. They did say my problem would prompt discussions with their jobber but this rack removes any doubt about whether I was installing the unit correctly.

You guys are a tough crowd.

I've never gotten any trouble from reman parts. That rack does completely suck though. They should compensate you somehow.

That being said. I rebuild turbochargers and distributors for turbo T/A's an I've never heard a single complaint from my customers so don't paint us all with one brush. YOU try finding a NOS Garrett TB0305.

The reman rack you got is a P.O.S. and the responsibility for that rests solely with the rebuilder BUT..

Every now and then a defective unit slips through the cracks, it's just the nature of the business and cheap labour doesn't add anything to help.

Shawn

Shawn, I'm totally on your side but remember, it was two dead racks in a row not just one. What are the odds the third one from the same jobber will be much better? Evidently, NAPA thought so too, which is why they offered to get me one from somewhere else. They'd rather make less money than watch the business walk. A smart move both politically and business-wise.

I've always had good luck with rebuilt stuff in the past. This is the first time I've had a problem with a bad steering rack out of the dozen or so I've installed. I think certain parts of the country experience less quality because the talent pool might be smaller or there's less choice.

LA has a ton of rebuild shops from Ma and Pa outfits to big mega plants. If we get bad parts from one place, we can go next door and buy from the other guy.

Jerry,

Sorry, I missed the bit about the second unit being bad as well.

Sounds like the NAPA guys run a stand-up shop but I think that rebuilder owes you a free rack at this point.

Perhaps sending them a bill for your hours would show them your side.

Shawn

But wait! There's more!

So the third rack (the first one from the new jobber) works great for a whole week before it too leaks like a New Orleans levee. I tell the manager at NAPA. He calls the jobber. Now the jobber wants me to bring the dead rack directly to him. I'm sure these guys still think I'm doing something wrong.

I pull out the rack and bring it in. The jobber pulls off a boot, sniffs the fluid floating around in it and goes ballistic.

[Armenian Accent] "GASOLINE!!! YOU PUT GASOLINE IN THERE!!![/Armenian Accent]

"No I didn't."

[Armenian Accent] "YES YOU DID!! I SMELL IT!! [/Armenian Accent]

"Why would I do that? I wanted to finish the job three racks ago."

The guy grabs one of his techs. [Armenian Accent] "SMELL THIS!! [/Armenian Accent]

The tech says, "Smells like solvent."

I look at the fluid. Sure enough, there are powdered bits of seal floating in suspension. What the...

The tech asks, "What fluid did you use?"

"I used the NAPA power steering fluid made for Hondas. They gave it to me free for my trouble."

"Don't use that fluid anymore. Use either the real thing or ATF ."

Meanwhile the owner has gone batty. [Armenian Accent] "I GIVE YOU RACK BUT NO MORE WARRANTY FOR YOU!! THIS IS LAST RACK!!! NO MORE!!!" [/Armenian Accent]

I still had a warranty with NAPA so I didn't care what he said but I wanted the whole thing to be done. I take the tech's advice and go to the local Honda dealer for some fluid. Since it's a Honda, I'm thinking I'll get bent over for this stuff. Meanwhile, it's $3.87 a can. This is a whole 38 cents more than the fake stuff at NAPA. I find a partially full can of the NAPA brew and it smells just like the fluid that came out of the rack.

Turns out Honda does not recognize anyone else's Honda fluid except their own. There is a warning printed on every single brand of non-Honda Honda power steering fluid. It's just like a cigarette warning label.

"This product is not authorized or approved by the manufacturer of Honda or Acura automobiles."

Well, great. Nine pints later.

I install the new rack with the real Honda fluid and of course, it's fine. This guy really does nice work and I felt bad the first rack croaked but all I did was follow directions and use what everyone told me was the approved fluid. The rack is ten whole days old and so far, so good. It's a new endurance record.

So what did we learn here? Use the official Honda power steering fluid. It smells sweet like a lubricant, not sharp like a solvent. It's more viscous, too. Not to mention almost as cheap as the rack-killing swill sold by everyone else. Go out of your way if you have to, even if you're just topping up. Use of everything else voids warranties and makes your Armenian rebuilder go crazy.

I still maintain the first two racks leaked because they were substandard. They came from a different jobber and actually leaked before I installed them. I thought the excess fluid was left over from assembly. They didn't even survive the bleeding process. The first one from the new jobber felt great until the seals got et up.

NAPA lost a hundred bucks because the first rebuilder refused to give them back my core. So the second guy whacked them for an extra C-note. Everyone is so happy with me right now. I'm making new friends everywhere. Wait til I start replacing the exhaust......

You know, I've always avoided NAPA. Not because of anything that personally happened to me, but just because I'm an old school "import guy" (late 70s-early 80s with Britcars), and saw most of my "hot rod" buddies going there. Maybe it was my teen-aged attitude problems, but I figured that any place so well versed in "Ammurican" cars was a place I should avoid.

OTOH, all the "big box stores" have driven most specialty "Foreign Auto Parts" places out of business, so there doesn't seem to be much in the way of alternatives anymore. Shame, really..here in the Southern US, the foreign parts places were almost as much of a clubhouse for import guys as they were a merchant. I still wonder how much knowledge was lost when some of those places closed up shop..

Anyway, I'm glad that it seems to finally be fixed! Man, doing that job four times must have been a PITA.

Jerry From LA wrote: Use of everything else voids warranties and makes your Armenian rebuilder go crazy. .

To be fair, how likely do you think it is that you aren't the first person to have this happen? Having to deal with the same problem 3-4 times a week can tend to make one a little touchy on the subject.

PS - Speaking of NAPA and power steering fluid. When I bought my VW, I bought a tin can of the special Pentosin stuff that VW/Audi uses. (aka G 00 2000 or "goo two-thousand") The NAPA here carries pretty much everything. They even carry stroker Hemi Mopars.

Used half the can, then found that pre-'89 models like mine just use Dexron, and you're not supposed to mix the two. Oops. Well, the can was $19, but at least I didn't go through two before finding out.

Knurled wrote: To be fair, how likely do you think it is that you aren't the first person to have this happen? Having to deal with the same problem 3-4 times a week can tend to make one a little touchy on the subject.

You're right except for two things. First, I did everything by the book. Besides, who appreciates being accused of either sabotage or poor workmanship?

I was getting heat from both him and the NAPA manager. You should've seen the manager's face when he found out he was done in by his own products.

Second, the whole mess could be avoided with the following sentence: "Using any fluid other than official Honda Motor CO power steering fluid voids the warranty." Should be written on the box.

I would've bought the Honda fluid after I installed the original rack built by the second rebuilder had the warning been on the box. BTW, I also paid a visit to thank him and bring him a sample of the NAPA fluid so he could smell it.

Knurled wrote: PS - Speaking of NAPA and power steering fluid. When I bought my VW, I bought a tin can of the special Pentosin stuff that VW/Audi uses. (aka G 00 2000 or "goo two-thousand") The NAPA here carries pretty much everything. They even carry stroker Hemi Mopars. Used half the can, then found that pre-'89 models like mine just use Dexron, and you're not supposed to mix the two. Oops. Well, the can was $19, but at least I didn't go through two before finding out.

Our NAPA is pretty comprehensive as well. No Hemi MoPars but the whole Pentosin line including the synthetic motor oil and the green hydraulic fluid for Citroen suspensions.

Remans can be fine, but cheap ones are cheap for a reason, usually.

Expect to run into this a lot more with NAPA. They've embraced the cheap parts mantra with enthusiasm. They are determined to surpass Trak and the like with selling junk parts at low prices. NAPA used to mean quality, it doesn't any longer.

Napa was the only store in my town that had 2" brass freeze plugs on the shelf. Autozone may have had them, but their site doesn't list them as even available in any material, including the crappy rubber ones. Advance had them in steel, but brass ones were special order parts at like $36.00 each. They were $3.20 at Napa. They had them sitting in a big numbered bin behind the counter, but they had them.

I've gotten to the point where if I have to replace something with a remanufactured unit, I'll buy the parts and rebuild the one I already have. I'm almost to that point with cheap, low quality parts.

Nissan truck slave cylinder. Stock one lasts 15 years and 130,000 miles. First replacement lasts 2 months and about 500 miles. Second replacement does a little better at 8 months and 5,000 miles. Third one was dead out of the box. The last one I put on left with the truck. The guy at Advance actually gave me 2 as a replacement after the DOA one and the extensive issues I'd had with them.

And yes, I did replace every bit of the fluid each time.

I actually stumbled across a SERIOUS hole-in-the-wall import ONLY parts store on the north side here.

I got sick of Advance trying to ask me time and time again when i was getting an alternator belt for my MX6:

"Does it have A/C?"

"Not anymore."

"Sorry, we don't have that belt."

".... It's not a serpentine. Separate belt. Just give me one "WITH A/C, then."

"You just told me it doesn't have AC."

"Whatever. Bye."

I went to this hole-in-the-wall place, went up the counter, and said:

"I'd like an alternator belt for a 1990 MX6, please."

"No problem, i'll be back in 15 seconds."

And he was. I paid, and i left, and installed it. Everyone was happy. I'm now getting ALL of my parts through there, thank you very much.

I went into an Advance one time needing an alternator belt for my Nissan, but I needed one an inch shorter. While the OE part number had to be looked up, the parts woman came back with the right belt. She was definitely one of "the old guys" we all miss so much.

I've been known to wait half an hour for one of my choice guys to help me out, even if the newbie is sitting there doing nothing. It's all in the experience of the parts guy, not the parts store.

I wish I could get all of these parts guys and gals together to open one really awesome shop. Every one of them I've met knows certain cars better than the collective of the internet. Get a few of them together and you have the potential for a killer shop. Hire some good parts rebuilders and rebuild your parts in house.

Too many business ideas, not enough experience, not enough money.

Jerry From LA wrote: So what did we learn here? Use the official Honda power steering fluid.

Same goes for transmission fluid, just so you don't have to go through this again. I as a Honda tech in the 90s. I can't count how many transmissions died right after having the fluid replaced with regular ATF. I use try to use only OEM chemicals on all my cars(oil filters too). It doesn't cost much more but saves money in the long run.

I still have bottles of ATF Z1 from my automatic Accord days. That stuff made all the difference in the world.

Thread resurrection because I love GRM.

Was just trying to decide between $48 reman water pump and $70 new water pump for the van.

I'll take $22 worth of insurance that I won't be doing this job again soon, seeing as it's going to take two weeks to find time to do it the first time. A little bummed that I'm not going with the $33 Rock Auto water pump, but there's some ambiguity about the correct part, so the local shop gets my business double (well, one pump, but I really mean it) for being able to show me what I'm getting on the spot... And apart from shipping time, there's the cost...

SBC? Never put a new pump on.

The castings are E36 M3 and they will leak at the lower hose unless you recontour it with a grinder. Massive casting flash right across the hose fitting.

The only failure I ever had with my is300 was a napa waterpump the previous owner decided to install when he had the timing belt done. It started knocking like crazy, and I thought "wow that's strange to have a toyota water pump fail at 120k, hmmm" then I went to replace it and sure enough, aftermarket garbage. I redid the belt with an oe one at that point too because it was aftermarket as well. If Napa or Autozone or Advanced made a car, I wouldn't buy it. I like to upgrade my cars, not downgrade them.