Road courses in central Michigan?

I began listening to the Speed Secrets podcast for the first time a couple days ago. One of them was an interview with the gentleman (from MI, no less) who wrote the book, "Physics for Gearheads." Honestly, most of what they said went over my head-- I didn't even know what trail braking was until I looked it up afterward -- but some of it stuck and stirred up some memories of my one and only Track Night that I did out in Heartland Park last summer. I don't think I'll ever forget that night. And, after listening to them, I replayed in my mind the mess I made of certain corners, #6 on their map in particular, https://speedsecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Heartland-Park.pdf

That, and I keep mulling over the thread on GRM here about steering with the throttle.

In conclusion, with Winter fast approaching, are there tracks besides GingerMan I should look up events at? I cannot WAIT to get out again!

In reply to P3PPY :Elkhart  Lake Wisconsin.  Is to many the premier race track in the country.  4 miles long with 3 good straights. It will teach you braking technique better than any.  Plus they have great facilities and the best race track food anyplace.  

Mid Ohio isn’t that far from you and definitely worth the trip. 

Blackhawk Wisconsin is a short tight track that is probably closer than either. 

Was it "fast car physics"?

Because I picked up a copy from my local library earlier this week.

Grattan Raceway is in Belding, MI, not too far from Gingerman.  Awesome track!!!

Grattan, Waterford Hills, and Gingerman, and M1 Concourse are the four road courses in MI.  All four are very different. IIRC you are in the Lansing area and all should be within two hours from you.  Then you've got the Ohio tracks (Mid-Ohio and Nelson Ledges) within 3 hours.

I'm an instructor with RSR PCA (all cars welcome!) And our first outing is 5/14 at Waterford. Let me know if you want to come out and see what we are all about.  We also do a big event at Grattan in June and Ross Bently is our guest instructor this year.  Randy ( the engineer in that podcast) is one of our members too.  

Gain some seat time at Gingerman or Waterford before tackling Grattan, it's my favorite nearby track but takes a little more getting used to.  Off camber and or blind corners, a jump, stuff that can be intimidating while also honing skills.

I'll be at Gingerman in June for an SCCA TNiA, to introduce my daughter to track driving, at her request.  TNiA is a very well run program, if you can make it to one of them I recommend it.

It was https://books.google.com/books/about/Physics_for_Gearheads.html?id=ntCqoAEACAAJ&source=kp_book_description

by Randy Beikmann. According to what I remember he retired from GM after years in their ...interiors?? dept. Now he teaches thermodynamics at a Flint college. 

we just did the budget last night so this is probably a once a year thing. PMRacing Ill look into RSR PCA and get back with you about it

I regularly instruct at Gingerman for CGI Motorsports and have raced at both Gingerman and Grattan.  I have only visited Waterford and gotten a ride around it for a couple of laps.  Of course my driver was Boris Said!

Grattan and Waterford both can be a bit scary for the new driver. Grattan for it's blind turns and high speeds. Waterford  for just the fact that it's so narrow with blind turns as well.  The only fact I haven't run there is the noise issue.

There are many track days at Gingerman and I know that Grattan has them as well.  I've run track days there with "Three Balls Racing".

Grattan is a blast, but it is intimidating. I've never run a lap fully flat-out there. There's a story that some famous driver once said that Grattan was designed by someone with an intimate knowledge of racing cars and pure hatred for race car drivers. It's probably apocryphal, but there's a strong ring of truth to it, just the same.

Grattan is great, but for racing in Lansing, there's only one choice.

East Lansing Kart Track. 10 turns, 4 hairpins, 750 yards, 3 miles north of MSU.

I'll be there tomorrow with two karts. 

Gingerman is a great place to "be brave, go fast".  Sight lines are (for the most part) excellent, there's plenty of overrun (except for turn 11) and there are sections where most cars (except my beloved Miatas) turn triple digits with relative ease and safety.  Gingerman is a great place to learn energy management, threshhold braking and track driving in general.  Turns 6-10 are a great place to learn how to "connect" corners at speed.  First trip out you'll likely have several laps that leave you thinking "That was a pretty good lap".

Grattan is a whole other animal.  It's narrow in places, twisty, rolling and blind in a LOT of places.  Trying to connect the various corners into a fluid line is tough, very tough.  I've yet to turn a lap I'm happy with at Grattan.  That's not to say it isn't fun, because it is.  It's also not to say you can't be safe out there as a noob, it just requires more self control and awareness of your limitations.  This from the guy who stuffed a car into the grass . . . backwards . . . his first time out at Grattan.   

PMRacing said:

I'm an instructor with RSR PCA (all cars welcome!) And our first outing is 5/14 at Waterford. Let me know if you want to come out and see what we are all about.  We also do a big event at Grattan in June and Ross Bently is our guest instructor this year.  Randy ( the engineer in that podcast) is one of our members too.  

Thanks for posting this, I always ignored any PCA events I've come across as I don't have a Porsche (yet). I also bookmarked this page on your clubs website, that's a great list of events and not easy to put together.

Adam

jimbbski said:

There are many track days at Gingerman and I know that Grattan has them as well.  I've run track days there with "Three Balls Racing".

How has it been running with 3 balls? I'm interested in their Grattan event at the beginning of July (or possibly doing an autointerests event at PITT race the same weekend instead). Am I crazy showing up with a 200hp car or is there room for everyone in the sandbox? Lots of track time? Laid back? Safe? I've got a decent amount of track time but it would be my first time at Grattan.

Thanks,

Adam

adam525i said:

jimbbski said:

There are many track days at Gingerman and I know that Grattan has them as well.  I've run track days there with "Three Balls Racing".

How has it been running with 3 balls? I'm interested in their Grattan event at the beginning of July (or possibly doing an autointerests event at PITT race the same weekend instead). Am I crazy showing up with a 200hp car or is there room for everyone in the sandbox? Lots of track time? Laid back? Safe? I've got a decent amount of track time but it would be my first time at Grattan.

Thanks,

Adam

I’ve run a few events with Three Balls at Grattan, they have room for all types and hp ratings.  Track time is typical HPDE three to four 20 minute sessions, it doesn’t sound like much but works.  

A little tip is to go on Sunday, at the end of the day when most have packed up and left it is usually open track time.  Once it was me a Miata, Corvette and a Ferrari, so basically an empty track as I never saw the other cars.

Safety is always number one at any HPDE that I’ve been to.

 Back when I was a BMWCCA member they welcomed all makes, you know someone to beat up on

In reply to adam525i :

I've always enjoyed my track days with "Three Balls".  A good bunch of guy just wanting to have fun with their cars. Some cars that show up are borderline exotic but you can get that anywhere you go.  I've got nothing bad to say about them.

Thanks for the feedback guys, sounds like a good group. I can understand some clubs being brand exclusive but I'm glad that the BMW CCA isn't (I'm a member), it's good to have variety.

Adam

Tracks list the phone number of each group that is running an event.  I just call them and ask, I can’t imagine being turned away unless they were out of room.  

Did my SCCA schools at Waterford Hills and then Road America in the late 90s, and then on my novice license decided to do my first race at Grattan. Ended up hitting a small tree, as this was the most difficult track I've ever been to. Would love to go back there and try it again.

Fond memories of Waterford Hills. Hilltop and the turns leading in to it are a real hoot. Not a big mph course which suited me and the MGB just fine.

Pete

Do you guys know any event organized that allow for a passenger-instructor? TNiA has a new rule that they don’t allow passengers. Sadly, I didn’t break the ice with an advanced driver last time and get someone to help me out. I mean, it is fun learning on your own, too, but that’s probably only good for kicks and not for getting very good. 

Most HPDE events usually will require an instructor for newbees. At CGI who I instruct for even experienced drivers who have never driven Gingerman will get an instructor for a session or two to help steepen their learning curve of the "racing line".

However only instructors are allowed to take passengers for "rides". We can take our students out in our car or their own. 

Personally I don't like when just any driver is allowed to take a passenger out.  Many years ago I instructed at a  HPDE and my student an older women got over confident and had her husband ride with her.  As he was active in the clubs management they felt it was "OK".  Well she screwed up and then went off and flipped and rolled the car which had no roll bar.  Luckly only a broken arm to the husband resulted but it could have been a lot worse!

It's already been covered the 4 tracks in MI, but I'll add my 2 pennies.  

1) Gingerman Raceway - South Haven, MI.  Spend a little extra time here, South Haven is a beautiful little beach town that you won't see if you only exit the highway and head inland to the track.  Great restaurants, some breweries, beautiful beach, pier, etc.  Plus Sherman's Ice Cream located near the highway is worth the stop.  Some great sunsets:

On the track itself, SCCA has 5 "Track Night in America" events scheduled at Gingerman this summer:  https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/locations/1981670-gingerman-raceway They do a great job of helping Novices get on track, provide paced laps to start, novice briefing, etc.  (EDIT... didn't see your TNiA reply earlier, sorry for redundant info)

2) Grattan Raceway - Grattan, MI.  There's a number of groups that run here that are very friendly to join for HPDE.  3Balls Racing (join their facebook page if you do facebook), and plenty of other clubs run here (Alfa Club, etc.) with plenty of room to spare for non brand specific entries.  Don't let the others scare you off.  Yes it has elevation and off camber, but it has reasonable run off, and is a riot to gain confidence on.  You don't have to do this:  

In addition, West Michigan SCCA and Furrin Group traditionally run a Labor Day autocross at Grattan.  This is different than your typical autocross in that it basically uses the whole track, with a few slaloms and strategic gates used to keep the overall speed down a bit.  It's still plenty fast, and gives you a feel for the course and it's elevation changes.  This fills up fast, so watching for registration on Furrin Group or WMSCCA's Facebook pages (again if you're on FB).  

3) Waterford Hills Raceway - Waterford, MI.  I'm less familiar with this course, but have attended a few track days here and ridden along.  Waterford is the oldest road racing course in Michigan, celebrating it's 60th anniversary this year.  As such, it's a narrow track, fun lines, with elevation, and a tricky swamp corner.  It was just repaved, so it'll be a new experience in 2019.  I'm not sure if any widening was done. 

4) M1 Concourse - Pontiac, MI.  I've yet to go here so I don't have much to add.  It's the newest facility, and more of a private event / "club" type facility, with private garages and such.  Gripes I've heard is very little runoff with lots of barriers.   

I did an event at M1 Concourse a couple of years ago. It's a fun little track that's amazingly well packaged into a small area. Everything is new and shiny, so that's a bonus, and as far as I know it doesn't have the noise restrictions that WHRRI does. I don't remember the barriers being too close or anything, but I wasn't going flat-out, either.

Here I am on track at M1 Concourse:

In reply to xflowgolf :

Waterford was repaved, but it was left at the original width, so still challenging to go three wide.