Road Rally

I was prompted by David's repeat of the "Rally Revival" article to think about our club's road rally program. The club was founded in 1954 and ran rallies for decades, many of which hosted 50+ cars. The club went on hiatus for a while, but was reactivated about 10 years ago to run autocross and road rally events.

Autocrosses typically bring 75-95 cars. Rallies struggle to break single digits. I even suggested that we make rallies free to anybody who attends an autocross, and we got 1 - count it, 1 - additional car at our last rally.

We're on motorsportreg.com. We announce the rallies and distribute flyers at every autocross. We keep in contact with the local PCA and BMWCCA and LBC club. We offer true TSD rallies and a simplified touring option. Nada.

Is road rally dead? Is it an old man's sport and nobody under 50 knows or cares about it? I admit I don't enjoy it as much as autocross, but it's a fun way to spend a Saturday afternoon enjoying my car.

So how do you get people to try it?

It's something that I've never done but always wanted to. I don't know what it would take for me to make the leap to actually get out and do it. Maybe I'm just too lazy.

I always wanted to try it. None local though.

I've tried a TSD. Not my bag, baby.

Come up with a way to explain the appeal, that's what'll drag people in.

Used to do a lot of it and set them up also. The club I belonged to would do ~1 a month. Usually ended at a restaurant where everyone could get a meal and some drinks to have a social aspect to it.

The other big point for us was to make them interesting. Frequently not every car got the same set of directions. Best one I ever did at one point in the rally had every group of 4 cars (if they were on time) pull up to a 4-way stop from each of the 4 directions at the same time and then make a right turn! Lots of second guessing after that happened.

Keith Tanner wrote: I've tried a TSD. Not my bag, baby. Come up with a way to explain the appeal, that's what'll drag people in.

Do them in the winter on snow and ice.

So make them more like a rally, then. Take out the games and the speed checks, and just haul ass. I like it. That's where rally came from, really. The TSD I did was the Glenwood MG Rallye, supposedly the longest lived one in the US. It was a pleasant cruise in the country with a bad set of directions.

Seriously, though - if you want people to come out, what are they going to do that's fun? How do you sell it? Failing that, how do you evolve so it IS fun for them? Noodling around the countryside trying to decipher clues and drive at a very specific legal speed isn't going to attract the same crowd that loves the smell of aerosolized R compound. I dare say it would be a hard sell to a younger crowd with lots of adrenaline and testosterone production.

The Pontiac club I belonged to in Orlando did a "poker run" Cars left about 1 minute apart with some cryptic directions on their way to 5 checkpoints, at each checkpoint they received a sealed envelope with a playing card in it. At the end there was an award for the best poker hand, and the shortest distance driven (meaning they got lost the least.

It was an annual event and managed to raise a few grand for charity. I'm hoping to find something fun like that now that I'm in the PNW.

Keith Tanner wrote: So make them more like a rally, then. Take out the games and the speed checks, and just haul ass. I like it. That's where rally came from, really.

I agree, I would show up for that. I have never tried a TSD but always thought they sound fairly boring. This weekend I heard some stories of the fast TSDs from the 70s and 80s that sounded much more like what I would be interested in trying.

Hal wrote: Best one I ever did at one point in the rally had every group of 4 cars (if they were on time) pull up to a 4-way stop from each of the 4 directions at the same time and then make a right turn!

This happened one year deep in the woods late at night during one of the Pine Barrens Expresses, but we were all following the same route instructions!

This is an interesting challenge. How do you get a new generation of younger enthusiasts who grew up with GPS and smart phones interested in an activity that requires paper, math, and not being told exactly when the next turn is coming up?

TSDs can definitely be boring, especially if it's all on-road...in the offroad TSD I do, it's mostly the navigation difficulty and offroad obstacles that make it interesting. Sections with straightforward navigation and a high average speed can spice things up too

Want a little more speed? Try a "Shortest Distance" rally.

All drivers have their odometer reading checked at the start line. They are given a set of directions to follow with no set speed. At the end of that stage which is 10 miles long odometers are checked again and drivers are given a new set of directions.

The new set of directions consist of the location of the finish and X number of places they must visit before returning to the finish. At each spot there will be a sign with something on it for them to record (some times we had a person at one or more of the places to check which cars showed up).

At the finish odometers were checked again and the car visiting all the checkpoints in the shortest distance was the winner. This type of rally might appeal to the "GPS kiddies", but they would probably lose to the team with the best paper maps.

Keith Tanner wrote: I've tried a TSD. Not my bag, baby. Come up with a way to explain the appeal, that's what'll drag people in.

I haven't tried one either, but I'm in the "I don't get the appeal" camp as well. It's not enough to host a rally - you have to sell people on the idea who don't see why they should turn out. Looks like you have several people in the audience here who aren't sold on them; maybe you can try explaining the appeal.

I did the "Son of Snodrift" TSD a few years ago and had a lot of fun actually.

I'd love to do one, but never have. Actually, I feel like a lot of the fun might be lost doing one in a modern car. 100% reliability, cruise control, GPS, etc. Sounds like it would take a lot of the work out of it.

On the other hand, if someone asked me and a buddy to campaign an MGB all the way across Montana in the least amount of time without using an interstate, a cell phone, a GPS, or a support truck, I call that a heck of a good time.

rcutclif wrote: On the other hand, if someone asked me and a buddy to campaign an MGB all the way across Montana in the least amount of time without using an interstate, a cell phone, a GPS, or a support truck, I call that a heck of a good time.

That does sound like a good time. I'd do that.

I've toyed with the idea of creating a TSD, that has a "scca style rallycross" portion. Randomly in the TSD you come to a field where a rallycross course is setup, take 2 passes then move on. Circle back later in the day and do it again. Though the scoring has me a little stumped.

Not enough explanation on the appeal for me. Though about doing one but cant find a reason to go.

sachilles wrote: I've toyed with the idea of creating a TSD, that has a "scca style rallycross" portion. Randomly in the TSD you come to a field where a rallycross course is setup, take 2 passes then move on. Circle back later in the day and do it again. Though the scoring has me a little stumped.

Take number of participants. Last place in the rallyx gets only 1 second of 'normalization' to their TSD time. 2nd to last gets 2 seconds. etc, etc. So if you are faster in the rallyx, you might get 30-45 seconds of normalization to your TSD time, which might really help.

or!

Take your rallyx time and add that to the amount of time you are off of zero for the TSD portion to make a total time. Shortest total time wins.

I did TSD rallies regularly in the 70s and 80s. It was a lot of fun. The teams with the best navigators would drive around at the prescribed speeds, but my navigator would screw up occasionally and that would precipitate some fun driving. We also set several of the club's rallies and I could find roads that 90% of the cars could not zero at speeds that were 90% of the posted speed limits. If you have never tried one you should go do it, at least once, to experience it.

Try adding a gimmick.

Things to look for. Find the clue to tell you the next turn etc.

A picnic at the end is nice.

When the Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club celebrated it's 50th anniversary, I set up a rally that toured most of the significant place that had involved the club. There were questions to answer along the way. After the rally, there was a cookout and much conversation.

We do a road rally at our club event every year. It's a trivia rally that uses time and distance as tiebreakers.

It's the only motorsports related event I don't have to convince my wife to go with me as its basically a competitive drive through the countryside that she actually participates in.

I'm actually wanting to try out some tsd events because of how well it went.

I've considered doing one with my wife as the navigator, but I have a feeling it would lead to arguing...

rcutclif wrote: On the other hand, if someone asked me and a buddy to campaign an MGB all the way across Montana in the least amount of time without using an interstate, a cell phone, a GPS, or a support truck, I call that a heck of a good time.

I can see the appeal there. Take something that's still got a high fun factor at legal speeds and might even be a bit of a challenge to drive at the speed limit would add considerable interest.

DeadSkunk wrote: We also set several of the club's rallies and I could find roads that 90% of the cars could not zero at speeds that were 90% of the posted speed limits. If you have never tried one you should go do it, at least once, to experience it.

I agree on both points. With fun roads, a TSD is more rally than math. And it's far more exciting in a slow car, we typically use a Mazda2 which means that falling behind results in max attack to try and catch up.

The trick is always going to be finding good navigators. Everybody wants to drive, nobody wants to stare at a calculator. I want to do tsd rallys so I volunteer as navi and let my wife or my friend drive. Not sure how to sell people that navigating is "cool"