R&T made me really, really sad with a hot take on sports cars...and they might be right

Don't know about yute and cars but all this talk about hats is very timely.  In my 60 years walking the earth I've never been a hat person...save for when I played little league never wore a baseball cap...backwards, forward, flat or curved.  One ecxception I guess when I was a beach lifeguard and i sported a military surplus pith helmet during later summer months.

No...due to a fully hirsute noggin and natural dark complexion never felt need for a capeau.  And years of outdoor activities have taken their toll.  For what ever other reason i decided to purchase my first real hat.   Choice?  A brown wool felt crushable broad bill fedora.  Complete with a small feather.  Not a tilley or a Bear Bryant or rat pack wannabe.  Think of a guy from '40s. Going fly fishing with a bamboo rod.   In a neck tie.   Quite comfy in this weather.  Suppose I'll go straw in the summer

I shall be avoiding the TV Bowl on Sunday.  Over the last few years I've been cutting back on tv overall especially as I was watching too many car shows much as I think it's still pretty great.  But something that has stuck with me on a show hosted by Jeff Gordons old crew chief either he or his interviewees were mentioning how great a Corvette was because it has GM money but guys back in the day of early fiberglass sports cars were just doing it by themselves in groups of a few.  I wish we could foster that more in the broader culture and I know I'll catch flak but the F&F stuff was a whisper of that.

Ultimately sod it.  I want to go fishing this year for the first time in three decades. 

I don't care what other folks like.

I don't care what they buy or do.

No one else's opinion of a car or a car activity is ever going to move my needle.

I love my cars for what they do for me.

I love my car activities for the experiences and the folks they BRING ME to.

At the end of the day, the cost of having a car (tax, title, tags, insurance, fines, etc) has never been higher, young people can't afford new cars, which means that "enthusiasts" who start their career have much less choice in starting with a sports car made in the last decade.

People buying new cars have never been older or richer, right now there's a 20 year and $40k annual income difference between mean population and car buyer.  What do 60 year old people buy (in general)?  SUVs, trucks, etc.  The stuff with high margins.

Sure, we drive 25 year old sports cars and know how to work on them, but if you were a high school kid who wanted something made in past 10 years, you can't afford to drop 15k on a used BRZ or NC.

Pair that all with the fact that Purchasing power/real wages haven't really increased for most Americans in 40 years means that a lot of families will not have the budget for frivolous, which is what all sports cars are, else in light of the fact made earlier that a lot of SUVs are as "good" to drive as a majority of sports cars.

I can see it.

should be the 'answer'.  Haven't paid more than $800 for one.  $90 in an expensive town insurance wise.  Takes forever to go through a tank of gas with the 1.6 and if it's clean outside and inside women are more than cool with it because it's cute.  Plus I've always had fun driving them despite getting smoked by the Chevy Spark in front of me one night and he/she wasn't even racing. 

At 31 I'm technically a millennial but I grew up with an old fashioned father who took me to dragstrips almost every weekend he was around and let me go to the garage alot so I developed a love for old cars.  I still prefer cars with carburetors and manual windows. Alot of my friends are the same way but even those that aren't tend to trend towards 90s honda civics and other cheaper vehicles.

Most of us between paying Bill's and trying to save some money have zero interest in buying anything brand new. When I can spend 5k for a nice version of a car I love why would I spend 40+k plus for a new car. 

Looking way back, CUVs aren't really a "new" thing...

Squint real hard, and you'll see a Ford Escape in that picture.  

In reply to dropstep :

"Most of us between paying Bill's and trying to save some money have zero interest in buying anything brand new. When I can spend 5k for a nice version of a car I love why would I spend 40+k plus for a new car"

Speaking as someone 10 years your senior, I can say a lot has changed for me in that decade.  I got a wife, 2 kids, a rental house, an hour each way commute, and a sore back.  Even that "nice" used car is going to need work, and having a new, warranteed car to depend on takes a lot of stress out of one's life, believe me.  

Plus, all out student loans and credit cards are paid off, and the 401k and Roth IRA are getting maxed every year.  I still like working on cars....just not the one I have to depend upon every day.  

In reply to Cooter :

I think if you need to resort to being as rude as possible on the internet, it might be time to step away from the keyboard for awhile.

Yeesh.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

Cars are no longer replaced every 2 years and last little more than a decade.  

They last longer than the payment book and endure until the dreaded tin worm makes them dangerous. 

Something that really is only suitable for the few years between good job and wife / family really no longer has a market.  

The income of young working men has not kept pace with what automotive companies can produce and sell at a profit.  

Let’s be honest , most of us at least partially want to impress girls and sportscars did that. However Women  with their near equality don’t see a young man with a sports car as a good candidate to marry and domesticate. 

ultraclyde said:

I think part of the decline in the interest in driving is the result of the increased traffic density.  In probably 75% of the country you don't get enough space to drive in a spirited manner. 

I agree.  In the last 50 years US population has increased by 50% and world population about doubled. In traffic people want a big moving couch to sit on and couldn't care less about driving feel, to which I say bring on the autonomous cars and keep them in their own lane.

frenchyd said:

In reply to pointofdeparture :

Cars are no longer replaced every 2 years and last little more than a decade.  

They last longer than the payment book and last decades.  

The car that my son is learning to drive is a 1998 and it doesn't seem that old even compared to cars that are 5ish years old. Compare that to when I started driving, a five year old car would have been from the late 80's whereas a car equal to the 1998 would have been late 60's. I'm looking for a 10 year old car for my daughter that she an drive for another 10 years. That's pretty easy. 

Since when did a bunch of miata enthusiasts start giving a E36 M3 about whats cool? 

Another elder millennial here. Honestly, between living day to day, modest student loans, and a good, but modestly paying job, I just don't have the money to play with cars the way I'd like to let alone buy any new enthusiast vehicle. Weirdly, I haven't had enough disposable income since I was a barista in high school to dump any real money into a project. I think many of my peers are in this same situation thus limiting our buying potential for new cars. The market is simply responding to these economic realities.

Wow, this got way out of hand.

First of all, I think Baruth is a great writer and most of what he writes is firmly tongue-in-cheek but with an element of truth to it.

I don’t know where all of the accusations of me overly caring what other people think are coming from, or how this has devolved into some folks dropping the phrase “toxic masculinity” (if even in jest), JFC. Some of you need to cool down a bit.

I couldn’t care less what others think about what I drive, or I wouldn’t drive weird old crap. I just grew up with sports car posters on my wall. Always. It was always the fantasy and still is. The idea that sports cars are now uncool is like someone telling me blue jeans are uncool. Like, the “in” style of jeans may change but jeans will always be cool. I thought the same thing about sports cars. It’s sheer cognitive dissonance to me that sports cars are now nerdy and lame to a large cross section of people, but as I digest the idea I can kind of see it and it makes me feel weird. I still like them, that’ll never change.

Just wanted to share the food for thought...almost wish I hadn’t.

dropstep said:

At 31 I'm technically a millennial but I grew up with an old fashioned father who took me to dragstrips almost every weekend he was around and let me go to the garage alot so I developed a love for old cars.  I still prefer cars with carburetors and manual windows. Alot of my friends are the same way but even those that aren't tend to trend towards 90s honda civics and other cheaper vehicles.

Most of us between paying Bill's and trying to save some money have zero interest in buying anything brand new. When I can spend 5k for a nice version of a car I love why would I spend 40+k plus for a new car. 

That's kind of interesting. I'll be 37 next month and I've never owned a car with a carburetor, have had two with manual windows though. 

I remember when 5 year old cars with a hundred thousand miles we're essentially worn out. Essentially domestic from the seventies and back. Cars do last a lot longer now for the most part.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

I remember when 5 year old cars with a hundred thousand miles we're essentially worn out. Essentially domestic from the seventies and back. Cars do last a lot longer now for the most part.

That's huge. Think about how many nice 28YO Miatas are running around. Growing up in the 70s, planned obsolescence was the order of the day and most cars were pretty marginal on the day they rolled off the lot. I'd bet that most Chevettes were abandoned or scrapped by their tenth birthday.  

In about 20 years the top-selling car, 3rd or 4th after the pickups overall, will be a 2-seat sportscar. 

Gen Z and Gen 0 are both EXTREMELY rational with wants vs needs on consumer products. Trying to get them to spend an extra $20 on anything is like pulling teeth, even for those fortunate enough to have good disposable income. The average car carries 1 occupant 90% of the time, 2 occupants 9% of the time. In a two-car family, or with a household that's a single or a couple, the savings on gasoline or electricity and road/parking space of a CRX-sized vehicle will only have to decisively beat out a 5-seats-plus-cargo car once for the concept to catch back on again. There'll be at least one gas price superspike or lithium shortage between now and then. 

chaparral said:

In about 20 years the top-selling car, 3rd or 4th after the pickups overall, will be a 2-seat sportscar. 

Gen Z and Gen 0 are both EXTREMELY rational with wants vs needs on consumer products. Trying to get them to spend an extra $20 on anything is like pulling teeth, even for those fortunate enough to have good disposable income. The average car carries 1 occupant 90% of the time, 2 occupants 9% of the time. In a two-car family, or with a household that's a single or a couple, the savings on gasoline or electricity and road/parking space of a CRX-sized vehicle will only have to decisively beat out a 5-seats-plus-cargo car once for the concept to catch back on again. There'll be at least one gas price superspike or lithium shortage between now and then. 

While I agree about the 2 seat part I doubt it will be a “sportscar”  In all likelihood  it  will either be self driving  Uber type or shared ownership. Work from home will become more and more the norm with more and more home delivery. Traffic congestion is when the cat walks in front of you.  

Why build expensive office buildings with all the parking problems and congestion complications?  

As far as younger people getting involved in Motorsports activities, even on the simplest levels like autocross, seems to be in competition with many other activities. I've approached younger car enthusiast with nicely modified performance vehicles and they seem to be really hesitant to get involved with actually getting on course. Rarely do I get anybody to participate inviting them to Auto crosses for the local scca. They seem to be worried about hurting their pride and joy.

My observations with my stepson and step daughters and their friends is they are either homebodies playing with their video games or they are very active with health oriented distractions. If they're outside people they're kayaking, mountain biking or Road biking, or they're involved in some type of running endurance activities. I don't think they see automobile activities as fitting in with a healthy lifestyle. Oh well. I remember scca expressed concerns over people being involved with Motorsports as declining because of the graying of the organization.

Has anyone figured out where Jack Baruth is going to next? Yesterday, he wrote his last R&T article and said he's started working for someone else that prohibits freelance. I've been diligently reading his articles for the last 4-5 years, so I'd like to keep following.

A couple of comments about income and car prices.  Compared to what I spent on used cars back in the '80's and what you can buy one for today, they are actually cheaper now when inflation is factored in.  And if you are a sports car guy, you're choices of somewhat reliable old cars is far, far better.  A 20 plus old Miata if a much better car than a 10 year old Triumph was then for example.  Even Mustangs are more reliable and better cars for less out of pocket money.  Kids today have it better in that regard.  I would say even starting salaries are better as well for college graduates in some markets.

What is different however is that the price of a college education has risen much faster than salaries and inflation.  I ran the numbers on this a couple of years ago and was shocked at what mine cost (BS in 1986) vs. what the same degree cost at the same university in 2016.  So if student loans are factored in, kids today are at bigger disadvantage.  Add in other items that did not exist then such as cell phones and other electronics and the income that we used to buy cars is simply not there as in the past.  In my opinion education costs are out of control and are seriously damaging younger generations and their ability to advance.  What is the alternative however? 

In reply to G_Body_Man :

A little late but this exactly. As a senior in High school i see this so much. I grew up in the back seat of a suburban/yukon and a trailblazer. Nothing sporty. Hasn't kept me from dropping almost all of my paycheck week after week into a volvo 850 turbo.