Rust Repair

Hi again. I know, I'm starting so many threads haha.

If anyone has seen my first car thread they know that, being an idiot teenager, I am ignoring everyone's advice and going after a dream car :D. Specifically an Isuzu Impulse RS, one of 800 that came to North America and only 130 still registered on American roads. Turbo, AWD, 2500 lbs, lotus tuned suspension, passive rear wheel steering, and 160 hp. 

(I promise I'll take everyone's advice if this falls through but I will regret it forever as the one that got away if I don't go after it)

Anyway being as rare as they are pickings are slim. In fact the only reason I'm going after it is because one came up for sale and it is so rare. Thus, I don't have much choice and so the one I have found has a but of rocker panel/fender rust. I've attached some pictures.

This is, according to the seller, the only rust spot. My question is, how hard would this be to fix properly (no bondo), what skills would I need, and what are some best practices, tips, and advice for that?

And if I'm too new to welding and metalwork how much would it cost to get something like this fixed. 

There is an online store called isuzuparts that has rocker panels and fenders, so I don't think I need to be too worried about metal shaping, more about cutting, welding, and rust coating/treating.

Thanks again

If the panels exist already, it should be relatively easy to cut and weld in good stuff- how good you want it to look really determines the difficulty.

That said, with that much rust intrusion I wouldn't trust for a second that it stops there.  I like showing up with a screwdriver and poking stuff on the unibody and subframes in these sorts of situations.

The other reason I'd be wary of this being the only rust is that it awfully looks like might already be bondo on the rocker panel, unless the grey stuff is undercoating.

What is scarier than the rust, is the Bondo. It's been fixed at least once. There is no telling what is under the paint. 

Everyone should do rust repair at least once in their lives. If nothing else it will convince them that a blown engine, worn out suspension, and destroyed transmission are easier to fix.

I will buy a stripped good body before I buy a perfect running rust bucket. 

At a bare minimum, you will be cutting out the rocker panel and rebuilding it from scratch unless you decide to slop Bondo over the rust again. 

looks like some thick bondo, almost no chance that this is the only rust. Where are you located? Being a former MI resident, transitioning through CO and now in VA, I've learned everyone has a different idea of "no rust" and the MI version of "rust free" means I can't actively see any from 10'. 

My experience working on cars from the north put me in the same mindset as Toyman. Mechanical work is relatively easy, rust is a cancer, very difficult to fully remove, and what you see is almost always the tip of the iceberg. Kudos on trying to find an interesting first car, but  that is a proper project. Another thing to keep in mind is that even w/ a replacement fender or rocker, there is likely significant (and possibly structural) work to be done behind that replacement panel. 

good luck, I'd tell you to pass, but this may be a lesson that has to be learned 1st hand. I know I've had my share, part of the fun of growing up! 

I understand the Isuzu want, but... 

Joe Dirt wanted a Hemi. I'm not sure it made it a cool one or a good one. 

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PS: given your age, Joe Dirt is a good movie to add to your que. 

It's a great opportunity to learn a new skill if you have the space and time, but to me that looks like just the tip of the iceberg. 

Looks like a candidate for an LNF engine that could easily double the power output, but I doubt that the driveline could take it.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Damn, that sucks to hear I was quite excited. He also has an AWD swapped geo storm so while it has a much worse engine, and is 1.25x as much, I think it's got minimal rust and is in much better condition.

Can I really do the screwdriver thing? I don't want to break more on someone else's car if I don't buy it. Is that the only way to assess further rot?

In reply to wspohn :

Interestingly enough, with custom driveshafts I think it can. There's a guy who did a 4.8 (Audi i think) V8 in one for a rallycross build. New frame rails, completely revised front chassis and everything. He didnt have any transmission problems but he did have axle problems and pretzeled the driveshaft. He also, I believe, swapped in a Miata rear diff for the rear diff. So I think the tranny could handle the power and torque of a V8, and the land has nowhere near the same low end torque (I think).

 Im more partial to a 2zz swap. 250 ish lbs, 7k redline, and dead nuts reliable.

In reply to Run_Away :

Damn. Like I said sucks to hear. How can I assess further rust? And how much should pursuade me from letting it go (or is this enough to wash my hands of it?)

In reply to BoxheadTim :

I didn't even realize that it is Bondo, shows how much I know. I doubt it is undercoating if it's that thick.

In reply to Toyman! :

Yeah I didn't even realize it was Bondo. Shows how much I know about bodywork. That really sucks.

Let me tell you I am not afraid of anything car related. I'd love to learn as I go and figure it out. Rust repair included. But it looks like the least enjoyable part of car repair, and Id rather do it on something easier like a Miata.

I dont want to half ass the repair and just slap Bondo on it, especially not on such a rare, cool car. I would try to buy a stripped body and this for parts but there is nothing out there. There are no stripped bodies lol.

On an idiot-ally optimistic note. How much work is involved in rebuilding the rocker

In reply to Evanuel9 :

I do, although obviously don't poke painted surfaces just stuff that's under the car and I generally ask first.  If the rust is bad enough you can poke your hand through it, I've actually handed a (very upset) used car dealer a piece of their "rust free" car before.

In reply to Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah I didn't even realize it was Bondo. I've got lots to learn.

I'm in Chicago but the car is in colorado. I would've expected less rust for Colorado but..... As far as Chicago rust goes it doesn't look bad compared to some of what I've seen here but I have zero body and rust repair experience, zero welding experience, so I can't imagine I would do a good job fixing it.

I don't have too much experience actually working on cars but from my experience fixing rusted break lines, anything rust related is the worst thing to do on a car...

What kind of work would need to be done? I want to pass but the price ($2k with coilovers, short shifter, upgraded turbo, intercooler, second engine, transmission, and transfer case (hard to find on these), extra wheel bearings, and the dream car part of this) makes it a hard temptation to reject. If I couldn't do it myself (newby to anything body) how much do you think a decent shop would charge for a proper repair (read: removing rust, patch panels, minimal to no Bondo, and real rust coating)?

In reply to John Welsh :

I'll add it to the movie list. Yeah I know and I agree. It's not a great idea. But, it's hard to reject such a temptation. Maybe a few more replies on how hard it'd be to fix will temper my expectations haha. I could always drive it into the ground as a beater though it would hurt to do that to such a special car.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Haha the look on his face must've been priceless. That's hilarious.

Ill bring my trusty screwdriver then. I'm hoping to god you're wrong but my gut is telling me you're probably right. 

If you're going to look at it, I'd recommend checking the same area on the opposite side, and also "chasing" the rust inwards from the obvious problem- is the pinch weld seam I can see there solid?  How about the floor on the other side of that seam?  The nearest suspension mount?  Also check the strut towers and any other crucial mount.

In reply to Evanuel9 :

Like I said, everyone should do at least one rust repair in their life. If you love the car, do it. Just go into it with eyes wide open and understand the project you could end up with. Guaranteed there is a lot more rust than what you see. There always is. 

I did it on my teen dream car. A slightly rusted FB RX-7. Only most of the sunroof frame and parts of the front frame rails were missing. It required learning how to weld sheet metal, how to do Bondo, and how to paint. I rebuilt the sunroof on that car from scrap body panels. It was a learning experience I'll never forget and don't regret, I just don't want to repeat it. 

The best part about rust repair is if you screw it up, you can cut it back out and try again. You aren't any worse than when you started. There are a pile of books out there as well as lots of YouTube videos to point you in the right directions. You can also ask on here and these guys will be happy to help. 

Well, you own the car now, so you are committed.

Bodywork is not that hard  despite not being fun in the classical sense.  Stupid expensive if you pay for it and not often done well when you do.

Welding is a transformative tool/skill to have as a "car-guy" so there is that.

An angle grinder, some spotweld cutter bits ( or even just drill bits) and a welder should see that lot fixed. I would not fixate on the no filler bit, as long as there is solid metal use the filler to make it pretty.

Tinwork leads to paint work and that gets dirty, tedious and expensive in a hurry. Very satisfying when done, but it eats up your life if you do it right. Aim for a touch-up paint repair for your first job. You can get the FLAPS to mix you up a spray can of just about any factory color and it is about 80% ok.

I myself an a repeat offender and here is a pic of the rust removed so far from the current project... with much more to come

In reply to NOHOME :

Haven't bought it yet. Planning to take a look at it this weekend ( we have a 4 day weekend). I definitely do want to learn to weld, and build tube frame stuff in the future. And I do also want to learn bodywork. It's just that bodywork looks hellish to do.

Its good to see an optimistic look at this situation. Like I said I'm going to look at it this weekend so I'll probably post some more pictures asking for advice before I decide whether or not to buy it.

At the moment i do not care about paintwork. I'd love a nice paint job or even a respray in a deep candy red or blue but right now I care more about runs and drives well, not going to rust/fall apart, and performance mods more than cosmetics. 

What is that rust from? What's it like taking on such a big amount of rust repair? it looks like almost rebuilding the unibody.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Got it! I am planning to take a look at it so I'll write these down as notes to check. Like I said hope you're wrong but gut says you're probably right 

In reply to Toyman! :

Well my eyes have certainly been opened. Thanks for the advice. I guess I can't really know until I see the extent of it. Guy says not much else just bit of surface rust but if it's this bad maybe he's not fully honest. We will see. 

If I do decide to buy and repair it you can bet I'm goijg to be asking lots of questions here. Any books or videos you'd recommend?

Here's what I was able to dig up on rust repair:

• Basic body work part 1: Repairing rusty sheet metal

• 4 ways to tackle rust | Good, better, best, ideal

Hopefully, they help.

In reply to Colin Wood :

Thank you, I'll take a look through these and they will probably help should I decide to buy it