RV - Class A vs tow behind (not 5th wheel)

In my ongoing life evolution my wife and I find ourselves traveling 35 weeks per year.  We love it but miss the hell out of our dog.  We've decided that for any event within 10 hours we will drive.  We also have 7 weeks off during the winter and plan to set up shop in Florida for at least 4 weeks.  Time for an RV.  So... class A or tow behind??? 

Budget is $25-28k all in.  We want 33'+ with at least one slide.  If we get a tow behind we need an SUV such as Armada/Expedition to tow it.  Must be SUV because we will take it to the track (if we park RV at team hotel) and the dog will stay in it.  If we get a class A, we will get a small hatch to tow behind... think Honda Fit, Toyota Matrix... for the dog.

For our money we get more with a tow behind.  We can get a 35' that's only a few years old with nice finishes.  At the same time I really don't have a desire to own a big SUV.  I like the idea of a class A better but for my money it would be 20+ years old.

What say you? 

I'm sure there are some new voices to give input on this question, but I've had this kind of ? before myself and found a few threads with useful info:

Talk to me about travel trailers

Learn Me Budget RV vs. Travel Trailer

RV, TT, Toy Haulers ect...

Motorhome towing a small car or truck towing a trailer?

Again, part of what makes this forum cool is the fact that every topic that comes up is handled like a live discussion, even if it's been talked about already, but I thought there might be some good stuff in those threads. 

Does the "all-in" price need to include the tow vehicle (or the road in the case if a Class A)?

SV reX said:

Does the "all-in" price need to include the tow vehicle (or the road in the case if a Class A)?

Yes 

How far will you have to tow on average?

How far are you looking to go? I find distance I am planning to tow has a big influence on this decision. My TT sucks to tow more than 4-5 hours in a day. My uncle drives a class A cross country a few times a year. He has a diesel pusher and sees ~10mpg, he says he has friends that do it with gas pushers that get 5-6. I don't have first hand experience with that but he is usually a pretty straight up person.

Don't underestimate the stress of towing, and the darned hard work of setting up and tearing down. 
 

In your case, I'm gonna suggest a motorhome is better. Setup is minimal, dogs can run free while you are rolling, easy to switch drivers and move around the unit, your "office" can be ready to go when you get there. 
 

Im also gonna suggest that a 33' Class A is a big unit (more stress), and you won't buy much in your price range. Consider something smaller.

Try it first. It's easy to rent one a couple times. 

I drive a lot. About 1000 miles a week. usually I'm not towing. 
 

When I tow, it a major difference. MUCH harder and more stressful. 

For what you want and what you want to do with it I don't think that exists. Either reduce the size range significantly or double the budget. Also if you're going to be doing that much road time in an RV you really want a class C not an A unless you need the extra towing/cargo capacity.

I've gone through a number of RVs in the last 20 years. Started with a '72 Chinook/ambulance conversion, moved to a 21 foot '72 Winnebago Indian, then to a 2009 19' hybrid trailer pulled by our Range Rover, then a 2012 27 foot Outback single slide pulled by an older diesel dually (and that sucked so I got a Suburban 2500 8.1 liter that was much nicer to tow with), then a 2016 35' triple slide trailer, and finally on to a 2007 34' Allegro Class A V10. Of all of them, the Allegro is my favorite. So much easier to maneuver than the tow behinds, and just easier to drive in general, and takes so much less time to set up at campsites. It actually seems to get the same or better fuel mileage than the Suburban pulling a trailer, too.

The Allegro cost $25k and has only 26k miles on it. So yes it's older than the travel trailers have been, but it's actually a nice rig. I'll be getting the tow bar setup for my MINI to tow behind it, as well.

SV reX said:

Don't underestimate the stress of towing, and the darned hard work of setting up and tearing down. 
 

In your case, I'm gonna suggest a motorhome is better. Setup is minimal, dogs can run free while you are rolling, easy ti switch drivers and move around the unit, your "office" can be ready to go when you get there. 
 

Im also gonna suggest that a 33' Class A is a big unit (more stress), and you won't buy much in your price range. Consider something smaller.

Try it first. It's easy to rent one a couple times. 

Probably a very unhelpful anecdote from me....

But when we were pulling our car-trailer- we could drive 10-12 hours a day and not really worry about it.  This would be at speed, and both of us would drive.  Could have been a great trailer that I was using, but that was how it was.

Now we pull a small camper- total weight is actually a little less, but the fact that it's single axle and has a larger wind profile makes it a lot more stressful to pull, and we limit the speed to just over 60mph (we drive under when the limit is 65).  

No idea why there's such a difference.

But for SJKSS- if you get a decent class A that can tow, and get a good, stable, trailer that you can deal with- that seems the best combination based on what you have posted so far.  (it doesn't work for us because of other requirements that are not listed).  

I have zero input on how to shop for a motored RV.  

In reply to Chris_V :

That is a great response, I appreciate the insight. For my curiosity can you tell me why the GMT400 dually sucked compared to the GMT800 suburban?

I really like that style dually but can't tell if that is like old memories seem better with age kind of deal.

NY Nick said:

In reply to Chris_V :

That is a great response, I appreciate the insight. For my curiosity can you tell me why the GMT400 dually sucked compared to the GMT800 suburban?

I really like that style dually but can't tell if that is like old memories seem better with age kind of deal.

When off the trailer, the dually was so hard to park and maneuver. When you go to a store or restaurant parking is a problem. Then there was the diesel repair tax and the fact that the turbo diesel wasn't that reliable (had it break down on the express lanes of the NJ Turnpike one evening coming home from CT)

When Mrs Frog and I were working a race series that required traveling to tracks all over the country every couple of weeks we did it with a class A towing a toad.   It was the best solution.   The dogs always had AC at the tracks, or in campgrounds when we visited National Parks.

Fortunately the series was paying travel costs, but even so it worked out less than airline tickets, rental cars, and hotels... plus we got to see America up close.

We still have a 39' class A that we tow a small SUV behind.  I've been known to cover ~750 miles per day with the class A.  It worked out great when I was also club racing a lot because we stayed at the track.  When trying to motel a race weekend Mrs Frog would have to get up at 6 so I could be working on the car before 8.  With the RV at the track she could have a comfy morning.

Like Chris V i'm a big fan of class A solutions.

But, that said, I don't see any good solution, either a class A with toad, or a trailer with adequate tow vehicle for the original posted $28K.   YMMV

alfadriver said:

Probably a very unhelpful anecdote from me....

But when we were pulling our car-trailer- we could drive 10-12 hours a day and not really worry about it.  This would be at speed, and both of us would drive.  Could have been a great trailer that I was using, but that was how it was.

Now we pull a small camper- total weight is actually a little less, but the fact that it's single axle and has a larger wind profile makes it a lot more stressful to pull, and we limit the speed to just over 60mph (we drive under when the limit is 65).  

No idea why there's such a difference.

Similar experience for me. I can tow my car hauler with whatever car on it all day with little issue. I've done it with various F-150s, an F-250, and my current Expedition. And my trailer is nothing special, it's an old steel frame wood deck 18' car hauler that probably weighs the better part of a ton and just has a regular old hitch, no load leveler or anything.

But both of the 30' travel trailers I've had were more work. Not that they towed badly, especially with a good load-leveling hitch, I never had any trouble, per se. But you were certainly a lot more aware that it's back there. I think the big hole you are punching in the air makes a big difference, too. I'd get 8-9mpg towing the travel trailer, and 12-14 towing the car hauler.

We are currently RV-less. I've been tempted by motorhomes, but I don't want to be anchored to a campground, so I'd want a toad, and none of our current vehicles are a good fit for it.

I started out with a borrowed 5th wheel behind my F350. It wasn't terrible but when you got where you were going you were stuck driving the tow vehicle everywhere. Going to the track required either driving the race car or another tow rig. The setup time for this was about 30 minutes. 

Next up was an Alaskan slide-in camper. It worked fairly well. You could tow to the track with it but if you were just camping, you would have to drive the camper everywhere. We drove this setup a lot, including a trip around Lake Superior. It works best when you are only staying one night at a campground before moving on to the next one. You were pretty limited for space as well. This one had very little space. No shower and no privacy. It was basically a bed with a dinette. The setup time for this was about 45 minutes. 

In the interest of comfort and being able to tow different vehicles depending on what we were doing I bought a 1996 Class A Tiffin on the F53 chassis for $4500. It was almost the perfect rig. 8k towing capacity meant it would haul what I needed. Lots of track events, lots of camping. It was a bit of a fuel hog at 6 mpg, so it mostly stayed within 5 hours of home. It was a great rig with a few shortcomings. Mostly the lack of storage, the small bathroom and shower, and the short queen bed. This rig has hydraulic levelers. Setup time was about 15 minutes. 

Taking everything I learned from the previous motorhome and RVs, I replaced the Tiffin this year with another class A. This time a 2007 Holiday Rambler on a Roadmaster chassis. It has 3 slides, including a super slide that is the entire driver's side. With a 10k towing capacity, it will haul everything I need it to. It's comfortable, has massive underbody storage, and drives extremely well, even towing. This rig is a diesel pusher with the 400 hp Cummins. It's old enough to be pre emissions so no DEF fluid or DPF to deal with. It was a good bit more than the Tiffin but it's at least that much better of a machine. 

If you are going to spend months at a time living in it, pay particular attention to the living space and storage. If it's not a comfortable place to live, you will find yourself leaving it at home. Lay on the bed. Stand in the shower. Sit on the toilet. Do all of the things you would do at home. Buy the space and layout first. Then move on to the chassis.

TT or Class A is a personal choice. I stayed with the Class A because I didn't want to be limited to driving a truck or SUV all the time. I wanted to be able to haul a race car, or a car and boat on a stacked trailer. That's not possible with a TT. 

Pay close attention to the condition of the roof on older units. They frequently leak. Any evidence of water intrusion needs to be inspected closely. Many of the inexpensive TTs and motorhomes are stick-built and rot quickly when water gets to them. Some of the better brands will have aluminum or steel framing. Do your research.

I would also consider staying with pre-COVID built units. There has been a lot of chatter about poor quality control during the COVID years. Manufacturers were building them as fast as they could without much regard for quality control. 

Good luck with your search. Make sure you let us know what you ended up doing. 

As a quick answer to an earlier question, I will travel between 100 mi and 700 mi each way.

I have found you can buy used gas class A units for less than you can buy a 250/2500 vehicle to tow a trailer.  Just saying.   Used class As are the cheapest dually you can by.  

Toyman! said:

If you are going to spend months at a time living in it, pay particular attention to the living space and storage. If it's not a comfortable place to live, you will find yourself leaving it at home. Lay on the bed. Stand in the shower. Sit on the toilet. Do all of the things you would do at home. By the space and layout first. Then move on to the chassis.

Definitely. I loved the living space in my last TT, as there were slides for the living room and dining area, and a kitchen island, as well as a bedroom slide. BUT after living with it for a few years, my wife bemoaned the lack of storage. There were two outside storage comparments, and where other storage might have been, there was a fireplace inside. Looked real good, and comfy to be in, but not as practical as we really needed. The Allegro we have now has massive amounts of basement storage (enough that I'm not even using al the compartments in it) plus more interior storage than the TT even though it's technically the same size AND has a washer/dryer unit in it.

The TT interior:

And the Allegro interior:

TT or Class A is a personal choice. I stayed with the Class A because I didn't want to be limited to driving a truck or SUV all the time. I wanted to be able to haul a race car, or a car and boat on a stacked trailer. That's not possible with a TT. 

Yup. And as you probably noted with the dually, the truck isn't the best for seeing sights or shopping or whatever once you're at your destination.

Pay close attention to the condition of the roof on older units. They frequently leak. Any evidence of water intrusion needs to be inspected closely. Many of the inexpensive TTs and motorhomes are stick-built and rot quickly when water gets to them. Some of the better brands will have aluminum or steel framing. Do your research.

I would also consider staying with pre-COVID built units. There has been a lot of chatter about poor quality control during the COVID years. Manufacturers were building them as fast as they could without much regard for quality control. 

Good luck with your search. Make sure you let us know what you ended up doing.

Good points. Too old and you run into wear issues or just deterioration over time (funny thing is you have to watch out for rigs with a lot of miles AND rigs with very little miles. Either case is hard on an RV). Older rigs might have appliances and parts that are obsolete that you can't get parts for anymore, but newer rigs can have quality issues from poor construction. Mid 2000s to early 2010s are the sweet spot currently. Pricing is good, you can usually get parts, still, and they shouldn't have too bad of wear.

I chose a gas drivetrain as there is a price penalty for diesel in the same years and brands. In my case, my 34' Allegro V10 Ford chassis was $25k. The same year diesel pusher Allegro Bus, for example, wouldn't have any better quality, but would have doubled the buy-in price, and increase repairs costs. I can drive a long way on gas for the difference. But the diesels do have better mountain and towing performance, so...

In reply to Chris_V :

I would say the gas/diesel boils down to how much you drive, what you tow, and your expectations of performance. Diesel is certainly more expensive in almost every way. I paid $68k for the Endeavor. I looked hard at as many gas units as I did diesel and it was a tough choice to spend the extra for the diesel. The only real reasons I went with the diesel were towing and climbing into the mountains which is where I spend most of my time driving. The Endeavor also came on the market about 3 miles from my house and it checked every box on my list of requirements.

I would be leary of cheap DPs. Deferred maintenance will kill you. Keeping up with coolant changes is as important as oil changes on a wet liner engine and can destroy a $20k engine. An engine service with all the filters can run $400 in parts. Transmission services are just as bad. Compare that to an engine service on my Tiffin at $40. I would shop for a layout you like and then move on to chassis and house condition. Fuel choice would be last on my list. 

Join this forum. https://www.irv2.com/forums/ Ask questions. There are many brands with known problems. There are many brands that are known to be better quality. I can recommend Tiffin. My Allegro Star was and is bulletproof. My son has it now. I came very close to buying an Allegro Bus. I can recommend Monaco and the brands they built like Holiday Rambler, Beaver, Safari, and such. My HR is very well built. The company filed Chapter 11 in 2009 and sold to REV in 2013. I would probably avoid those years due to quality issues. 

In reply to alfadriver :

Small single axles are much harder to tow than bigger trailers. They buck, sway, roll, and bounce.  They are also a bitch to back up.  I'd much rather tow my 34' TT than a small single axle. 
 

When I say they are harder, I mean harder on the driver. They are stressful. The trick doesn't care much, but it's often a white knuckle driving experience.

My least favorite thing to tow is an empty tow dolly. It's only 750 lbs, but it bounces right off the road, and the full weight is thrown back and forth on the trailer tongue. 
 

Toyman! said:

In reply to Chris_V :

I would say the gas/diesel boils down to how much you drive, what you tow, and your expectations of performance. Diesel is certainly more expensive in almost every way. I paid $68k for the Endeavor. I looked hard at as many gas units as I did diesel and it was a tough choice to spend the extra for the diesel. The only real reasons I went with the diesel were towing and climbing into the mountains which is where I spend most of my time driving. The Endeavor also came on the market about 3 miles from my house and it checked every box on my list of requirements.

I would be leary of cheap DPs. Deferred maintenance will kill you. Keeping up with coolant changes is as important as oil changes on a wet liner engine and can destroy a $20k engine. An engine service with all the filters can run $400 in parts. Transmission services are just as bad. Compare that to an engine service on my Tiffin at $40. I would shop for a layout you like and then move on to chassis and house condition. Fuel choice would be last on my list. 

Join this forum. https://www.irv2.com/forums/ Ask questions. There are many brands with known problems. There are many brands that are known to be better quality. I can recommend Tiffin. My Allegro Star was and is bulletproof. My son has it now. I came very close to buying an Allegro Bus. I can recommend Monaco and the brands they built like Holiday Rambler, Beaver, Safari, and such. My HR is very well built. The company filed Chapter 11 in 2009 and sold to REV in 2013. I would probably avoid those years due to quality issues. 

Agreed on all counts.

Having spent over a quarter of my life living in RVs including 6 years as a full-timer, I have strong opinions.  Take them, leave them, YMMV.

1. Since you said 35 weeks, Do not buy anything that says Lite, Feather, Pup, Cub, Jr, etc.  They make them light by replacing luan and wood with paper and farts.  Go to an RV show on the last day and you'll see that many RVs are already wasted after a hundred people opened cabinets.  They are really that bad unless you open up the big wallet.  If you said you are a typical RVer (labor day, memorial day, and 4th of july), then you can get a lightweight RV.  Otherwise, just don't.
2. I also strongly suggest used.... and I mean used.  As in, nothing after about 2001.  RV manufacturers went through a massive cluster and they all got bought up by parent companies, swapped ownership, and generally went to hell.  Seriously, do a googles.  Both of my current RVs are from 1992 and 1993.  They are bulletproof.  Remember, you're buying the quality of the carcass.  All of the appliances are made by one of two or three manufacturers and they are universal.  If something doesn't work, you're way better off with a solid carcass that needs a new water heater.  Buying a 1995 RV from a quality brand and putting $3000 into some upgraded appliances is about $20,000 cheaper than buying a new RV that is a box of cardboard and disappointment.  Mom and Dad have a 2018 Keystone.  It was wasted after the first summer.  My 5er that gets used three months a year and lives outside in Canada all winter is a 1993 Keystone and it looks practically new.  Every cabinet door is real wood.  Ever cabinet frame is solid.  The carpet (aside from being faded) is still good.  The upholstery is great.
3. How far do you go?  With a TT, this is a big deal.  Never use the tow rating of the vehicle to choose a TT.  If you get an F150 that says it can tow 12,000 and then snag a 36' park model, you'll likely end up in a ditch.  You're towing a billboard.  TTs always need more pig up front.  5ers are much better at this (I know you said no 5ers) because they put the fulcrum over the axle instead of on a lever 6' behind the axle.  If you are only going 150 miles away on these trips, you can get away with just an adequate tow rig and be on your A-game.  If you're going long distances, you want overkill.  I lived in a 30' TT towed by an F250 Powerstroke.  Trailer GVWR was 10k and I was well within the capacity of that truck.  I should have done a dually.  500 miles a day meant I was wasted being on my A-game.  I ended up getting to a destination tired and crabby.
4. Diesel vs Gas... your call.  It also depends on fuel taxes in your states where you travel.  For the most part, diesel trucks get far better MPG and more than offset the additional cost of fuel.  The torque is brilliant also.  I understand why some don't like diesels, and they're allowed to be wrong, but I'm a diesel lover.  Again... don't get one after about 2008.  That's when DPFs and urea injection started tanking reliability.  
5. Class A vs TT... again, your call.  For me it depends on if you're on the road more or at your destination more.  Once you park and set up a Class A, you're missing a vehicle unless you have a toad.  Toads can be a pain in the but and it causes way more wear and damage on that little car than you'd like to think.  TTs you pull in, unhitch, and the pig becomes your vehicle to go where you need to go.

If you want to chat more, send me a DM.  I have ideas. 

You said you don't want to own an SUV. As far as I am concerned, that may be the best summary of any for why you need a motorhome.

I interpret that to mean you don't like driving big vehicles.  If you get a dually and a tow behind, you will be driving a big truck 100% of the time. And duallies are a LOT worse to drive around town than an SUV. And when you are not driving it around town, you'll be towing.  Aaargh.
 

If you get a motorhome, most of the time you are stationary you can be driving an enjoyable compact. 

Thanks all!!  To clarify a few things:

I'm on the road 35 weekends per year, but not all will be in the RV.  Maybe 15-18 will in the RV, the rest we fly.  

I don't want a big SUV simply because I have no need/desire for one outside of the potential to tow an RV.