RWD Northstar?

Its winter time and I've been looking into engine swaps with some of my new time stuck in doors not wrenching. I want to know what needs to be done to make a cadillac northstar engine work with a rwd transmission. I little bit or searching via google says one bolt is moved and the starter location would need to be clearanced to fit something other than a fwd transmission. Saw something about a 2.8L V6 bell housing modified for use in a rock crawling jeep. What are my options?

The actual engine in question is really a short star 3.5L oldsmobile engine but everything should apply just the same. Thinkin an 87'ish cutlass supreme with this engine would scoot pretty good and return some good mileage numbers.

http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm

In short, your best bet is a RWD trans made for GM's "metric" pattern...think 2.8, 3.4, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_bellhousing_patterns

My brother has a 700R4 from a 2.8 S10 sitting in the shop that I've thought about stealing more than once. The short star is a cool engine, if you are interested in pushrod stuff the "high value" engines are worth taking a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine

Bryce

just buy this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-05-Cadillac-SRX-05-STS-4-6L-Engine-Motor-65K-LKQ_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ33615QQihZ010QQitemZ200279633169

4.6 > 3.5

I've always wondered this as well. I've always wanted to put a 4.0L Aurora V8 in something. Always thought that would be a cool engine to have in something. Especially this rail buggy we have sitting behind the garage.

DirtyBird222 wrote: I've always wondered this as well. I've always wanted to put a 4.0L Aurora V8 in something. Always thought that would be a cool engine to have in something. Especially this rail buggy we have sitting behind the garage.

Interestingly enough, 4.6 > 4.0 also. Why use the 4.0 when you can use something like the engine patgizz linked to just as easily (if not easier)?

Bryce

no kidding. don't do all the work for 3/4th's the result.

I think I've seen a rail buggy with a N* on teh 1ntr4w3b, yo. I bet Kennedy Engineering makes a bell housing to fit that to anything you want.

the 4.0L was a debored version of the 4.6L that was used in the FWD Aurora AND was used in the RWD Shelby Series 1 making over 300HP in a 2600lb car in 1998, I knew a guy who lived just over the border in Mass when I was growing up in CT who used to bring his to cruise nights in my area, sweet a$$ ride, kinda a cross between a Miata and Corvette if you ask me:

http://www.classicmustang.com/includes/12242_Series_1/Pics_12242_Series_1.htm

One issue with this era Northstar is the main head bolt thread pitch and depth are insufficient to provide adequate clamping over long term heat cycling and tend to stretch and then pull the threads out of the aluminum block (no OEM reinforcement). That's why the most common problem for this high compression ratio engine is headgasket failure, although it's usually not the gaskets themselves that go, it's the heads lifting off the block, I know I did it to my Northstar, but Timeserts or serious head stud repair and you're good to go for many many more miles...

Raze wrote: the 4.0L was a debored version of the 4.6L that was used in the FWD Aurora AND was used in the RWD Shelby Series 1 making over 300HP in a 2600lb car in 1998,

isn't the Shelby also the only application of the RWD northstar with a manual transmission? the significance of that is that there's an ECM and a flywheel out there with GM part numbers for a RWD Stick N*.

correct me if i'm wrong. it happened once before.

AngryCorvair wrote:

Raze wrote: the 4.0L was a debored version of the 4.6L that was used in the FWD Aurora AND was used in the RWD Shelby Series 1 making over 300HP in a 2600lb car in 1998,

isn't the Shelby also the only application of the RWD northstar with a manual transmission? the significance of that is that there's an ECM and a flywheel out there with GM part numbers for a RWD Stick N*. correct me if i'm wrong. it happened once before.

What makes you think that Shelby used factory GM parts to make it RWD and stick?

There is PROM code out there that allows using the stock ECM and ignores all the stuff like transmission, abs, etc. so you can run the engine with the stock ECM and none of the fluff (such as with a manual trans). If you wanted to do any mods or tuning, you can also use a Megasquirt with all the stock engine hardware.

In regards to the flywheel, if you don't want to modify an off-the-shelf flywheel you can get one from these guys:

http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm

Alternately, other folks make flywheels for Northstars in different applications and will probably do a custom one if you made a good case for it (such as a common trans application). Kennedy was already mentioned, they'd probably do a steel one for you. SPEC has done custom aluminum ones for the Northstar mated to a Getrag 282 (GM transverse) trans and would probably make the same thing with a different ring gear/clutch combo if you made a good case for it. These aren't cheap, the cheap way out is to plug and redrill another flywheel, lots of guys have done that with the Northstar and 282 with success.

Bryce

16vCorey wrote:

AngryCorvair wrote:

Raze wrote: the 4.0L was a debored version of the 4.6L that was used in the FWD Aurora AND was used in the RWD Shelby Series 1 making over 300HP in a 2600lb car in 1998,

isn't the Shelby also the only application of the RWD northstar with a manual transmission? the significance of that is that there's an ECM and a flywheel out there with GM part numbers for a RWD Stick N*. correct me if i'm wrong. it happened once before.

What makes you think that Shelby used factory GM parts to make it RWD and stick?

speculation on my part, knowing Shelby's love for the dollar. even though the flywheel would've been a one-off as far as GM is concerned, GM could get it made cheaper than Shel.

My reasoning for the short star is that I may be able to get one for free once the transmission dies in our 00' Intrigue. Despite having high miles, 177k, its still running like a champ and pulling in 27-28 mpg while still having plenty of power.

You want to swap a short star into an 87 cutlass supreme? I'm confused...

Isn't that like swapping in a S/C 3800, sure it can be done, but why? Why not sell both cars, buy a $500 miata, that always seems like the answer around here...

Raze wrote: ... buy a $500 miata...

and THEN swap in the L67 Supercharged 3800

John Brown wrote:

Raze wrote: ... buy a $500 miata...

and THEN swap in the L67 Supercharged 3800

I was trying not to provide ALL the GOOD ideas ;)

Hotrod mag did a big fat RWD Northstar write up a few years ago. I'll see if i can find the issue.

no no no, put the shortstar in the miata, use the L67 to keep your johnboat from drifting downstream....

No love for the 3.8L, give me more cams more power and better mileage any day. The sound it makes is a million times better too.

I've already got the miata covered, this would be a wacky side project.

Nitroracer wrote: ...this would be a wacky side project.

-INSERT MORE WACKY VARIATIONS OF THIS PROJECT HERE-

Nitroracer wrote: No love for the 3.8L, give me more cams more power and better mileage any day. The sound it makes is a million times better too.

are you sure? For a brief period of time we had new intrigues on the lot with either the shortstar or the 3.8. I never, and I mean never, had someone drive them back to back and choose the 3.5. I think the four cam is a lot "cooler", but for supposedly having more power it sure felt slower too me. I think your comment about fuel economy gives away the fact you just like it better, cause there's no way you can knock the mpg of the 3800.

Have to agree w/belteshazzar, 3.8L would return something like 27MPG HWY in my mom's 1994? Olds 88 LSS. She drove that thing until this year to 230k miles and the engine was still running strong, the trans however had seen better days...

And I realize it's kind of irrelevant to argue this 'cause you already have the shortstar to work with... I'm just sayin.

My parents just got back from Pennsylvania in their Regal. 33mpg average.

Hey, as a corollary to this, is there a readily available transverse manual setup that a N* pattern would adapt to?

The Northstar bolt pattern is the same as the GM "metric" pattern (as mentioned above) except for one bolt hole. That means any transverse manual that uses the old 2.8 up through the modern 3900 and everything in between. Of course, flywheel required would depend on the trans used. I mentioned the Spec aluminum flywheel for the Getrag 282 above (Fiero, Cavalier, Beretta, Achieva, etc.).

Bryce