RX-8, GTO, and WRX Reliability

Okay, girlfriend is looking closer at cars she's interested in. Goal is a 2+2 sports coupe, preferably with RWD. She drove an RX-8 today and loved it, but she's heard some mixed things about the reliability and longevity of the rotary engine. I figured I'd come here as the appropriate place to dispel or confirm myths.

The GTO and WRX are other cars she's considering, and also figured I'd ask if there are any reliability concerns with those. Someone was telling her that the engine in the GTO was temperamental and costly to repair.

Have her do some research on the mazda boards about the rotary. They are not bad if you take care of them. I do not own one but was looking at them for a bit. Horrible gas mileage but they burn less oil than my 175000 mile corolla. 04-05 had issues with cold starts if you killed the engine before it was warm it would flood. Offset that against needing to be revved to 9000 rpms everytime you drive it(heaven!!) not a bad trade there. I can't tell you about wrx's they seem to be good cars unless really abused. incidentally I thought the GTO engine was the standard GM v-8 espeically the 5.7 liter. I hope someone that knows their ass from a hole in the ground responds about that though. Good luck in your search.

We've done some google searches and gotten a bunch of mixed reviews. I generally trust this forum as a place where the people are knowledgeable.

Plenty will chime in but basically the RX8 needs the most attention (you really should check the oil level every other fill up, pre-mixing helps a lot, do not shut down until after total warm up, rev car to 3-4k rpm before shutting down to prevent flooding) but gives the most back in return only real issue as stated is gas mileage.

With the GTO look at getting the later 6.0 as the 5.7 is not the better engine.

The WRX is great but come 60 and 80k you better follow the maintenance procedures to a key or you will be kicking your self in the ass HARD.

Good luck with your choice.

My 04 WRX has been reliable as an anvil for over 120k miles. Nothing out of the ordinary for maintenance, just spark plugs, oil and filter changes and a new timing belt.

The only failure was a heater blower motor that seized. I replaced it myself with a used one from eBay.

I do seem to remember a GRM article where they were suggesting budget alternatives to supercars, and I belive the GTO was a replacement for the (at that time current) Z package vette (07/08 IIRC). To me, they appear to be a decent DD-ish sports coupe that can also handle itself at the track.

That said, the WRX's do seem to be bulletproof, even if that assertation is based solely on the riced out versions I see day in day out around me. If a 19yo turdball can slap a fart cannon and ill fitting body kit, blast up to 50 mph at every light and then hardpark at the White Castle (their fries used to only come in one size ) for 2 or 3 years with their "minimal" (read: lack of) proper mechanical ability, Id say a relatively unmolested version in the right hands could last for quite some time!

4cylndrfury wrote: I do seem to remember a GRM article where they were suggesting budget alternatives to supercars, and I belive the GTO was a replacement for the (at that time current) Z package vette (07/08 IIRC). To me, they appear to be a decent DD-ish sports coupe that can also handle itself at the track. That said, the WRX's do seem to be bulletproof, even if that assertation is based solely on the riced out versions I see day in day out around me. If a 19yo turdball can slap a fart cannon and ill fitting body kit, blast up to 50 mph at every light and then hardpark at the White Castle (their fries used to only come in one size ) for 2 or 3 years with their "minimal" (read: lack of) proper mechanical ability, Id say a relatively unmolested version in the right hands could last for quite some time!

Unmolested WRX? thats almost laughable!

Not impossible just rare.

Which GTO? The '04 or the '05-'06? The '05-'06 used the LS2 motor. It also had upgrades brakes and cosmetic changes. A lot of people feel it's the better car, and it costs that much more accordingly. Having owned an '04, I'm a bit partial to those. It uses the LS1 engine. As long as you take car of them, they're pretty bulletproof. They also are very common, so there's a huge (and relatively inexpensive) aftermarket for them. The prices are also much lower. I just sold my '04 in May. It had a laundry list of mods...engine put out 372rwhp, big buck suspension upgrades, clutch/tranny, etc...and 21,000 original miles for under $17k. You can find a nice stock '04 for $13-$14k. Only suggestion is that if she's going to drive it hard, upgrade the brakes.

If it matters for you, look at fuel mileage too. I've heard the RX is a fuel hog. Not sure about the Subie, but I think it's pretty thirsty too. The GTO can suck gas if you are on it hard a lot. But on the highway, I could get 32mpg, and in mixed driving, I averaged about 22-24mpg.

Edit...forgot to mention...Even with all the mods my engine had, I never found it to be tempermental. Ran great, stayed cool, no major issues. The car rides nice too. Has a bit of body roll in stock form, remember that it's a fairly heavy car, but still a great compromise between ride and handling.

I vote for the RX-8. I understand that Mazda has extended the warranty on the 2004-2008 cars to 8 years or 100k miles.

The only thing temperamental about the LS motor in the GTO is amount torque it produces and how easy you can multiple said torque (and HP) with a few bucks . . .

In reply to Wonkothesane:

I always marvel at the rotary's undeserved reputation for unreliability. I'm currently flogging an '88 Turbo II with over 100k on the original engine running near 20 psi on a sloppy tune on a Haltech, and I can't seem to blow it up. It's nothing for n/a engines to go 200-250k if you don't overheat or oil starve them.

Think its a pretty clear cut case for the GTO; fastest, most reliable, best interior, best fuel economy, modable motor, competitively priced. Unless for some reason you absolutely need suicide doors or awd

Wonkothesane wrote: 1988RedT2 - I think it's largely due to the very initial ones (we're talking 60s), that has some longevity issues mostly due to metallurgy limitations of the time (as near as I can tell). There's a lot of "My daddy knew a guy who blew one up, so they're reliable" mentality that's extremely pervasive. That and they are a car that doesn't tolerate overheating well. Of course, Subies don't like it either and they're still considered "reliable" even with that 2.5 head gasket fiasco... I guess I don't understand people :)

People fear what they don't understand, and people don't seem to understand the rotory. I think the main source of all the misinformation regarding reliability stems from how they respond to bad tuning. You can't treat them like a conventional motor. Back when they were new, there were posts every other week on Club rx8 about people wanting to add MOAR boost and asking what was the biggest NOS shot they could run.

My '04 GTO was completely reliable. I never heard of any engine reliability issues when I used to cruise the GTO message boards. Its just the standard GM LS1 or LS2 engine depending on the model year.

The interior was really nice too, probably the best of any GM besides Cadillac. Mine was Cosmos (purple) with matching purple seats, door inserts, and gauges. The back seats are fine for adults.

Trunk space is a little small and there is no pass-thru because the gas tank sits between the rear seats and trunk. Its not tiny, but smaller than cars of comparable size.

Some early cars had an issue with "strut rub" where the tire could contact the suspension and could cause a blowout. My GTO never did it and I never knew anyone who did, not even the guys that auto-x'ed. It seemed like the forum made a bigger deal of it than it really was.

Hope this helps.

Can't really say anything about the GTO or WRX other than the friends I have the own them have no complaints about them. I do have an 04 RX8. We did have the flooding issue and the engine was replaced under warranty. To get around that, the trick is no starting and moving the car then shutting off. Let it run some, drive around the block or something. You don't have to get it to operating temp, just don't start it and rev it a couple times then shut it off as that will flood it. Gas mileage isn't great but compared to my 95 F150 w/203,000 miles the RX8 gets better. Not anywhere close to my Miata though. Just took it on an 800+mile trip with no issues. Doesn't use as much oil as you would think and there is an oil low light that works, although you want to top it off before that comes on. Check and add as needed every couple fill-ups is fine. Mine has just turned over 100,000 miles w/8,000 on the new engine. Check maintenance costs on all the choices. RX8 spark plugs are $80 for the set of 4 as an example.
Any of them would be a good choice.

Wonkothesane wrote: ...Oh, I will add that in my Rx8, we can fit 3 adults and a baby in a seat for a day at the autocross pretty comfortably.

But how does he reach the pedals?

WRX>GTO>RX8 for reliability.

The WRX and GTO should both be very reliable, I'm just handing the win to the Subaru on reputation

Get the GTO. Yeah, you can make it crazy fast with small investment but you will cut into its reliability. I added a cold air intake and replaced all the front bushings and struts due to the magazine articles and forum chat. I really couldnt tell the difference between 350 and 400hp in my test drives and the 2004 was very reasonably priced. I am tempted to add a better exhaust but am not sure that I want the car to have a high profile. Right now, no one really knows what it is and I couldnt see paying extra money for fake hood scoops and 50hp I couldnt feel. The car has been ultra-reliable. Using synthetic oil, I just change when the computer says to change oil and I go over 11k miles between changes. I would recommend that you replace the stock belly pan with an aftermarket guard. You lose about 30lbs immediately and it is much easier to service the engine. There are plenty of parts for the GTO and if GM had built more cars this solid, we the people wouldnt own GM today. I have driven it daily this summer purely due to the heat of the Tennessee summer and the efficiency of the AC compared to my miata.
I have owned and raced many different rotaries and the RX8 is no different than any other rotary. They are reliable and long-serving but need more than average maintenance to keep them that way.
I have no experience with WRX but I am not sure I want to own any high mileage car with exotic engine or drivetrain. YMMV

My wrx has been anvil-reliable since '02. 96k.

GameboyRMH wrote: WRX>GTO>RX8 for reliability.

I question this. How is a DOHC turbo AWD car more reliable than an N/A pushrod RWD?

This just seems like the typical bias that Japanese cars are somehow more reliable than American cars.

Mind you, the closest I've come to owning any of these was a single ride in an RX-8, and being stuffed in the backseat of a WRX wagon from Eureka to San Diego and back.

If I could have found a GTO in my price range I would have definitely bought that over my WRX.

I don't think reliability should be the discriminator you use to pick a car out of the three. Its pretty much going to be a wash. How is she planning on hooning the car?

Drifting: GTO no question

Autocrossing: RX-8 (WRX being very close)

HPDE's: WRX

General street driving: GTO (WRX being very very close, esp if you are running up to the snow)

I never had a lot of respect for the GTO's until I got royally spanked at a track day by a well-driven one...

For the street, even though you specify 'coupe' (a sentiment I defintely share) I'd also consider a Caddy CTS-V... I've never driven one in anger, but I liked the overall street feel better than the GTO and the prices seem similar...

Bill

Capt Slow wrote: I don't think reliability should be the discriminator you use to pick a car out of the three. Its pretty much going to be a wash. How is she planning on hooning the car? Drifting: GTO no question Autocrossing: RX-8 (WRX being very close) HPDE's: WRX General street driving: GTO (WRX being very very close, esp if you are running up to the snow)

Mostly street. Primary goal is something that will just be pleasurable and fun to drive around town, and something she'll want to take as a GT car for vacations and such. Back seat is there primarily for the 15# dog, but it would be nice to have the option of taking other people relatively comfortably, but just cramped enough to discourage friends from wanting to always carpool with us.

After that, it's pretty much guarunteed that she will auto-x with whatever she gets (her decision, more than mine), but she's not super competitive.

She also does enjoy drift and would probably like that option.

She has pretty much stated that she plans to not HPDE it primarily out of concern that she could wreck her nice car. Problem with the RX-8 is it was so much fun and just wanted to go fasTER and she felt concerned that she'd feel obligated to HPDE it to get it out of her system.

I like the GTO best. I think she likes the RX-8 best. That was the most excited and most daring I've ever seen her drive on the street. The sales guy refused to believe that she normally drives like a grandma (which she does). She spent mot of the time cruising at 5-6k RPM. She's just gotten concerned because she talked to her dad and he was telling her about rotary engines failing a lot.

She's also wondering about something that could potentially take all our rock climbing gear (two big crash pads and two backpacks) and the dog on day trips. I told her that a sports car is the wrong choice for that, and that's what my van is for.

We also test drove a Mustang GT, but HATED the seating. The head rests really bugged her and completely drove me nuts. She said she liked that the Mustang handled better and felt a bit lighter than she expected, but that she liked the sense of command and power. I suspect I can use that to steer her towards the GTO.

Also, I don't suppose anyone can chime in with 06-07 / vs '08 WRX impressions? Unfortunately the 09 would probably be a bit beyond our price point. I've heard reviews (including on GRM) about the 08's just being too soft.