S5000

So many times, we all look with wonder at the racing down under.  Here's another one-

https://www.s5000.com.au

With a video channel, where you can see highlights of the race this past weekend.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcstcc-Ew5z-SNTyJnR2_uQ/videos

Formula 5000 with modern chassis, what could be wrong? They will have to restrict the engine power to keep them slower than F1

In reply to TurnerX19 :

The restriction part is pretty easy, it seems- it's a crate Coyote 5.0l with some modifications to make it port throttled and a structural member of the car.  And while I'm a ford person, I'm actually surprised that they didn't go LS, since, for the same ~550 hp, you would have a much smaller package.  The only thing I can think of is that the smaller heads would be tougher to use as a structural member.....

In the long run, I wonder how popular it will be, as many should recall that when the CART-Indycar split happened, the engine note was a major part of the Indycar change- which didn't last all that long.  So it's really a spec chassis, spec engine, open wheel class that goes fast- which is pretty darned close to the current Indycar.  But the sound....  For Australia and New Zealand, I suspect it will be popular- as they don't have a realistic open wheel alternative, and there's oodles of F5000 history there. 

I'll keep an eye on it, for sure.

That looks cool.  I wonder what the car cost is.  I didn't see any mention of the brakes, although I did see the wheel diameter is 15", which would make the brakes on the smaller side.

In reply to Ian F :

Not sure what brake size has to do with performance.  F1 cars still use 13" wheels and stop fine.  Light car, lot's of aero and carbon makes for 4 or 5 G stops.

The new F5000 cars are based on an existing F3 chassis, complete with FIA HALO as used in F1, F2 and F3.  I'd estimate chassis costs are probably $100-150K US with the modified Coyote engine in the $30-50K range.  Dirt cheap for the performance level.  I doubt they will be as fast as F2 cars, let alone an Indy car and light years off of a modern F1 car.  But they will certainly be very very fast.  Rubens Barrichello is racing in the series and has talked to Button and Webber about them too.  

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

On the safety thing- they do seem pretty darned safe- as there was a pretty nasty looking accident on that opening weekend, and the driver walked away.  

I think it's awesome. I hope it really catches on and sticks around for a long time...imagine, an "all-star" F5000 race where drivers from all over the world go to Australia and race these things, could be really cool.

For some reason, F5000 always seemed to have more emotional connection Down Under than it had in North America.  When news first broke that someone was making a serious attempt to reboot F5000 in Oz, I was stoked.  The car looked a lot like a Lola 330.  Then some legal conflicts cropped up and they ended up using a car that looks more like current F1 than retro F5000.  Once I found out it was going to be a spec series my interest dropped about 90% regardless.   If the economics work out that's great, but speaking for myself, I'm not going to make any effort to follow it in the current format. 

In reply to stroker :

+1 Part of the joy of original F5000 was the variety in the cars. Yes, only the Chevy engine was successful, but chassis were tube frame, semi monocoque, or (McRae) full monocoque with tubes to assist the engine as structure. The McRae I restored got clocked at 186 mph uphill at Road America too. 

The problem is a non-spec a single seater series is almost impossible today unless it is F1 or a purely club category. You can’t  put the genie back in the bottle as far as aerodynamics, materials, technology and development of concern. Don’t forget that in the good old days cars and grids were much much further apart than today. Now for any competitive single seater series if your second off the pace you’re well outside three top 10.   A company that makes a car that’s a second off the pace has probably bankrupted the driver and put themselves out of business 

Adrian_Thompson said:

The problem is a non-spec a single seater series is almost impossible today unless it is F1 or a purely club category. You can’t  put the genie back in the bottle as far as aerodynamics, materials, technology and development of concern. Don’t forget that in the good old days cars and grids were much much further apart than today. Now for any competitive single seater series if your second off the pace you’re well outside three top 10.   A company that makes a car that’s a second off the pace has probably bankrupted the driver and put themselves out of business 

And a lot of that is because of safety- which pretty much requires a carbon fiber tub and now a halo type device.  There's no real way to go back to 200mph open wheel cars made of tubular steel or folded aluminum sheets anymore.

So any investment to "compete" with a self made car would be massive relative to the "good old days" of CanAm or F5000 (or even Indycar or F1).   Let alone the "good old days" meant drivers won by a lap or two over 2nd place pretty regularly.

That ignores areo.  Which increases the investment that much more.

The trick is to take the money out, but we've had that conversation already in other threads.   Either that, or change the rules so that you create disparity where the cars are fast on the track.  

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to stroker :

+1 Part of the joy of original F5000 was the variety in the cars. Yes, only the Chevy engine was successful, but chassis were tube frame, semi monocoque, or (McRae) full monocoque with tubes to assist the engine as structure. The McRae I restored got clocked at 186 mph uphill at Road America too. 

Actually in Australia the Holden repco engines were successful aswell. Holden has their own locally designed v8s down there but the chevies were successful there aswell.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

The Repco F1 V8 uses a Buick / Rover pushrod stock block with new OHC heads. 

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

The Repco F1 V8 uses a Buick / Rover pushrod stock block with new OHC heads. 

The Holden repco f5000 were the holden engines built by repco 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_V8_engine

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

Cool, I didn't know about those.  Time to read up.  thx

Here I was hoping for a S2000 with a 5.0 Coyote swap...

scardeal said:

Here I was hoping for a S2000 with a 5.0 Coyote swap...

Gotta be honest, I thought it would be some V8 powered S2K, as well, though I'll be looking in to the series...

OldGray320i said:

scardeal said:

Here I was hoping for a S2000 with a 5.0 Coyote swap...

Gotta be honest, I thought it would be some V8 powered S2K, as well, though I'll be looking in to the series...

Why do I feel a V8 S2K is the automotive equivalent of dividing by zero?

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

Cool, I didn't know about those.  Time to read up.  thx

Both the big Bertha and baby Bertha vauxhall super saloons used the Holden f5000 engine

There is some serious vintage f5000 racing down under aswell

MotorsportsGordon said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

Cool, I didn't know about those.  Time to read up.  thx

Both the big Bertha and baby Bertha vauxhall super saloons used the Holden f5000 engine

I didn’t know that. I thought it was just a Chevy V8. I did see Baby Bertha race at Brands once in a ThunderSaloon race.