Safety questions on cars from 80's and 90's

My question would be if this is a fun car or a daily driver. If it's a daily driver where you'll be driving in busy traffic conditions on a highly regular basis with your toddler in the car, I'd say buy neither and get a modern car. 

If this is a fun car and you want your toddler to come have fun with you on light traffic times / occasional drives I'd say buy something in the best condition you can that you'll enjoy. My 3.5 year old loves riding in my old truck and she's been in the Healey one time but I wouldn't shuttle her around regularly in the old stuff. 

A lot of these opinions are what go round and round in my head all day long.  When we got married I sold the MX5 to help with the costs, with an agreement that when we could I'd get another fun car.  Since then everything has been a compromise as a daily driver and no fun car.   Over here rust isn't the issue it was in blighty, and I keep hankering after an E36, but I can't quite tally up the safety aspect (ignoring other E36 shortcomings!).  Anything I get would also be the daily driver and normally taking 2 kids to school, and the driving standards here haven't improved with all the COVID lockdowns.  Drink driving and completely ignoring traffic laws ares still common place if not on the rise. 

As AxeHealey says, if it was an occasional/weekend car I could see it, but in peak traffic with the kids in, I don't think I can square it away.  Chances might be small, but if something did happen?  I'd have a hard time coping with it.  I've kindof accepted if I change the Mazda3 it'll be for something safer, rather than less so..

I am in a similar situation and ended up getting out of 80s and 90s BMWs.  I wouldn't be able to live with myself in a tbone where I was ok and the kid didn't make it.  A Mazda RX8, BMW 128i, or a Mini does everything the older cars do with a bit more thought for the safety.  The 128i specifically is the same size and same power as an e36 m3 coupe with 200lbs of safety equipment added.  All you lose is the cool factor.

Have you seen the "backseat" of a 944? Glorified parcel shelf. I'd be surprised you could get a modern car seat in there for a kid. Does your kid have legs? Nevermind not gonna fit.

vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) said:

Have you seen the "backseat" of a 944? Glorified parcel shelf. I'd be surprised you could get a modern car seat in there for a kid. Does your kid have legs? Nevermind not gonna fit.

Agreed. Even my (at the time) 5 year old couldn't actually use the seat. Mine has a storage compartment there now. 

I have a 1987 Corolla FX16 GT-S.  If you sit in the backseat, you can lean back and touch the rear glass with your head. Side impact protection consists of the window crank mechanism in the door.  The only real safety feature of this car is the hood fold-up protection.  The hood will not decapitate you, but merely fold up in front of your face.  It does have seat belts.  

Good luck in your search!

when I was restoring my 1970 Triumph GT6 I found that there was a thick steel cable attached to the engine block and bolted to the frame. Initially I thought it was a massive-overkill grounding strap (but then I found a normal grounding wire elsewhere). I was told later by an old-timer that Triumph added that cable for the US market "so the engine wouldn't end up in your lap in a front-end collision." Which I thought was pretty funny, seeing as that car would be crushed in to the back wheels in any kind of front-end collision anyhow, and the engine would be the first of many things crushing the driver to death. 

If you are looking at ITRs you have a budget. Why not just defer on safety and get an E46 M3 or similar? I get the 80s vibe but you make different choices with kids involved. 

In reply to CrustyRedXpress :

Condition matters far more than brand regarding safety. Far more than age.  

In reply to frenchyd :

There are the areas of collision prevention and then there is protection when one happens. A cars crash ability being compromised by corrosion is a very high bar that would have had even most of us cheapskates on here have long since taken it off the road. Now, aged seatbelts are an interesting area, but that needs some testing and research to back up just how bad it would be.

In reply to GTwannaB :

Yeah-luckily GRM has a E46 right now so I'll be keeping up with what they think of it. The E46 would be within a few production years of the ITR, albeit one design generation newer. Looks like the M3 is 500 lbs (5%?) heavier as well.

I'm not completely convinced that getting an E46 M3 vs. an ITR changes the amount of danger I'm exposing kiddo to in a meaningful way. Newer cars are safer, but without safety data the increase in risk is impossible to quantify or compare to other decisions we make as parents. We have a pool (fenced in!) and keep guns (locked up!) in the house as well. From a glance at the safety data both of these things are pretty risky for kiddo as well. Depending on child care he may be riding to daycare in a bike carrier, so it's not even clear how many miles he'd actually be in the car. 

The overall fatality rate from auto accidents in the US for kids under 13 in 2001 was 25.9 per million in 1999, 14.1/M in 2009 and 11.7/M in 2019. My guess is that multiple factors went into this drop (more kids sitting in the backseat, more kids using child safety seats, improved design of child safety seats) outside of just car safety improvements. 

https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/children 

AxeHealey said:

My question would be if this is a fun car or a daily driver. If it's a daily driver where you'll be driving in busy traffic conditions on a highly regular basis with your toddler in the car, I'd say buy neither and get a modern car. 

If this is a fun car and you want your toddler to come have fun with you on light traffic times / occasional drives I'd say buy something in the best condition you can that you'll enjoy. My 3.5 year old loves riding in my old truck and she's been in the Healey one time but I wouldn't shuttle her around regularly in the old stuff. 

 

This!  I was about to essentially write this. I have a prewar car that doesn't have seatbelts and won't go over 65. 
I do about 500 miles a year. On Sunday afternoons. In the country. With my kids using the jump seats in the rear.  The kid hauler is a Toyota Highlander. Right tool for the job. 

I mean, my parents transported me around in an ...'84?... B2200, but I don't think that they were thinking safety. Plenty of kids grew up healthy and injury free without the safety margins that are built into modern conveyances. But I'm gonna be the party pooper here and say that if you're asking the question of which 80s or 90s car is the safest, you probably already know that the answer is none. I'm not saying that you can't transport a child in an EF civic or AE86, only that if safety is a priority, these are not your droids. 

That being said, Volvos have always had a reputation for safety, so a 240/740/940 might work. Mercedes w124/126 might also fit the bill. I'm excluding the 123 because they're just too slow. I also wouldn't think anything 80s American would be any good secondary to sloppy handling and breaking characteristics. I think were I in these shoes, I might go for an e46 or facelifted e39.I'd also consider a 9th gen Civic Si or 1st gen TSX for a 90s Honda feel with modern-ish safety characteristics.  

In reply to JoeTR6 :

This is the image that comes to mind.....

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

LOL.  He was a combination of that, Steve McQueen, and Barney Fife.  At least in my mind.  Mom made him sell it after getting three speeding tickets within a year.  Dark metallic blue with a black vinyl roof.

Purely anecdotal evidence here, but I've personally witnessed quite a few serious accidents (street and track) with E30s where everyone walked away. Can't say the same for VW or pretty much any Japanese or American car from that era.

An even better/stronger/safer chassis is the Mercedes W201 (190E) and especially the W124 (E-class). They're built like tanks. I have zero hesitation taking my 6-year-old son out for a drive in my Mercedes 260E even among NJ Turnpike truck and SUV traffic. He's strapped into his Recaro child seat and I'm confident he's as safe as can be back there.

EDITED TO ADD: There's a 190E 2.3-16 for sale near me for $15k. That's the one with 16v Cosworth engine, close-ratio Getrag with dog-leg first, aero kit, Recaro bucket seats, big brakes, LSD diff, etc. etc. Much cooler than an E36 M3 and I'm sure it's no less safe.

In reply to LanEvo :

I love the Cossie 190's, I really need to own one.

trucke said:

I have a 1987 Corolla FX16 GT-S.  If you sit in the backseat, you can lean back and touch the rear glass with your head. Side impact protection consists of the window crank mechanism in the door.  The only real safety feature of this car is the hood fold-up protection.  The hood will not decapitate you, but merely fold up in front of your face.  It does have seat belts.  

Good luck in your search!

If the car was sold in the US after 1973, it has side impact protection beams.

The hood fold-up thing amuses me.  People say it makes the hood dangerous if you remove the inner structure because now it no longer has those weak points.   Well, the point of the weak points is that the inner structure makes the hood too strong otherwise, if you remove the inner structure, no problem.

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

when I was restoring my 1970 Triumph GT6 I found that there was a thick steel cable attached to the engine block and bolted to the frame. Initially I thought it was a massive-overkill grounding strap (but then I found a normal grounding wire elsewhere). I was told later by an old-timer that Triumph added that cable for the US market "so the engine wouldn't end up in your lap in a front-end collision." Which I thought was pretty funny, seeing as that car would be crushed in to the back wheels in any kind of front-end collision anyhow, and the engine would be the first of many things crushing the driver to death. 

Audi had a really weird safety device, it was a couple thick cables that looped around the back of the engine and some pulleys in the front.  What it did was, in a frontal collision hard enough to displace the drivetrain (not difficult with a longitudinal engine kissing the bumper), the cables would yank the seatbelts tighter, and collapse the steering column out of the driver's way.