scca autocross reorganization

Just wanted to take a minute to echo Tim's sentiment in the latest issue.

Yesterday was my third event back autocrossing from when I stopped 9 years ago. I started going again just on a lark not knowing anything about the class and tire reorganization. I'm glad that Rcomps aren't a must-have and classes are more open and level. CAM seems to be bringing in cars that might not have otherwise come out, it was great seeing a 55 Thunderbird convertible, 65 Mustang and 70 Camaro at our event yesterday. Being competitive in STF is way more attainable than whatever I ran in back in the day and the rules are much more straightforward as well for the ST classes. Definitely makes the whole event more fun and worth it when its 105℉ out here.

TL:DR - New autocross tire rules and classes are good for the sport.

Glad so many people seem happy about the change.

I was against the stock class shakeup because tires were/are the major expense in stock class and you can get super cheap used R-comps (A6's) from time-trial or road racing cars for dirt cheap/free. I have never had much luck finding used street-comp tires. Either way you need a dedicated set to be competitive even with the new rules, but was cheaper with R-comps if you didn't mind used. (And I found good used ones to very nearly as fast as new). I still have a couple piles of A6's in the basement that won't get used for auto-x now.

I hope it does help with membership.

We've seen an increase in attendance this year, but I don't know how much the rule change had to do with it. I think having one of our members start a Facebook page has had more to do with it.

We didn't have but a few drivers running R-comps in Stock Class. We now have 4-5 muscle cars running CAM, but no old muscle cars. The "Street Touring" classes are big and generally make up one of the 3-4 run groups by themselves. We still run a "Tire" class for SP/P/SM/M cars on street tires. "TSM" is a big group of boost-buggies (WRX/EVO/Eclipse)

JohnyHachi6 wrote: Glad so many people seem happy about the change. I was against the stock class shakeup because tires were/are the major expense in stock class and you can get super cheap used R-comps (A6's) from time-trial or road racing cars for dirt cheap/free. I have never had much luck finding used street-comp tires. Either way you need a dedicated set to be competitive even with the new rules, but was cheaper with R-comps if you didn't mind used. (And I found good used ones to very nearly as fast as new). I still have a couple piles of A6's in the basement that won't get used for auto-x now. I hope it does help with membership.

what size A6's ?

the only complaint I have about the tire change is the doing away with the 140 TW …

the main reason (regardless what is claimed about being compatible with the LeMons and Chump … the SCCA really doesn't care about them) was the complaints from the STR drivers (who can run 255's) about the few MX5 drivers that could run the pixie dust Toyo 195's …

really the only classes that the 195 was a factor (and EVERYONE ran them) was STS & STC with a smattering of STF

the next best thing for the STS/STC is probably the 225 RS3 .. which is about a sec slower on a 60sec course ….

and now STS/STC will have to do a complete yr of PAX based on the speed of the Toyo … plus I know several drivers that are leaving the class for greener pastures, so that ends up cutting the competition level …

What is the new TW limit for stock classes?

200TW. I'm fine with it all. But then again, I'm not a "srs bzns" auto-x'er. I am loving STF because, IMO, the class is still open and the overdog hasn't been found/sorted yet.

neon4891 wrote: What is the new TW limit for stock classes?

140 for the rest of this yr. 200 from 2015 and on

In reply to JohnyHachi6: What size are they? I'm just curious. You may not have checked the rules, but there is a one-year continuation of the old rules stock class called stock-r comp. It's interesting that in doing this, the classes are basically the same as last year. Super Stock will stay with the old rules, because people complained that the cars wouldn't be safe (yeah, right) with street tires. The only bad thing about last year's rules was that if you ran stock with street tires, your pax time wasn't good since you were expected to run slicks or be in the street tire class. You should just sell them for cheap to guys in Street prepared and up classes.

JohnyHachi6 wrote: I was against the stock class shakeup because tires were/are the major expense in stock class and you can get super cheap used R-comps (A6's) from time-trial or road racing cars for dirt cheap/free.

WHERE? I keep hearing this. I've never found any.

Not A6s but I used SRF tires on my Golf and got them for free at the track after qualifying. There's a guy on eBay (search USDRRT or leegrx7) that sells takeoffs for cheap and usually free shipping east of the Rockies. I'm not a SRS BZNS autoxer either and am good with the use of street tires in so many categories. It makes classing easier too.

Look on ebay for easy cheap A6's. Like Chrispy said the seller USDRRT usually has good stuff and can get more than what's listed if you ask.

Lots of 18" tires typically, but I've seen 13's all the way up to 19's. If there's a track or race shop near you, just ask around. The top teams in production race series requiring DOT tires usually run A6's for quali and toss them for the race.

No track within 90 minutes of me, and definitely none that hosts any kind of semi-pro racing. I'll try ebay, though. Thanks.

I still think there are too many autocross classes. I know there needs to be at the national level but for fun locally it's frustrating to have a car you can still enjoy as a DD and get thrashed by someone who has built an STS or STR monster that can only be driven to events.

In reply to JohnyHachi6: I have a performance shop close to me, I'll try there. I have actually only competed in one auto-x with my race car, plus I want to get faster before I race on slicks on a regular basis. It's pretty impressive and inspiring watching National level drivers getting top 15 raw times in stock cars with street tires.

KyAllroad wrote: I still think there are too many autocross classes. I know there needs to be at the national level but for fun locally it's frustrating to have a car you can still enjoy as a DD and get thrashed by someone who has built an STS or STR monster that can only be driven to events.

I hear ya - both the our Integra and MR2 fall into the ST classes, but are built to be daily drivers instead of competitive autocrossers. My wife and I are slower because of it. However, I'd argue that is a choice.

If you really want your daily to be competitive, that's what the new street class is for. Now you don't even have to change tires when you get there.

KyAllroad wrote: I still think there are too many autocross classes. I know there needs to be at the national level but for fun locally it's frustrating to have a car you can still enjoy as a DD and get thrashed by someone who has built an STS or STR monster that can only be driven to events.

Technically, ST cars are daily driven capable since they're not supposed to have the interior or rear seats removed, or a standalone ECU. Some people can't daily drive them because of the very firm springs and shocks that they put on them.

The guys(or girls) that put in the effort and money to build a ST auto-x car are usually the fast, hardcore drivers that you won't be able to catch anytime soon.

The big reason for a high count classes is to encourage as many people to come out and race as possible with a diverse selection of cars. With the sport being as established as it is now, they don't want to simplify classes so you need to have a Miata, Corvette, 911, racing kart, or a formula car to win.

KyAllroad wrote: I still think there are too many autocross classes. I know there needs to be at the national level but for fun locally it's frustrating to have a car you can still enjoy as a DD and get thrashed by someone who has built an STS or STR monster that can only be driven to events.

Actually, your argument could be construed as a case for MORE classes. PAX is what ties it all together. ST cars aren't directly competing with S(treet) cars because they are in different classes and the only comparison is from looking at PAX (or RTP or whatever).

It kinda sucks that there are cars that have no competitive outlet, but if there was a competitive outlet for every car the rules book would be a major headache instead of the (relatively) minor one it is now.

Hell, my Mustang would have to be built into a CP car to have a chance nationally because of the newer mustangs! (its a minor ESP build)

You are always going to have people who will make any compromise for the nth bit of speed. People bringing 3 different sets of street tires so they can be perfectly suited to conditions and such. Hell, didnt some guy bring several sets of sticker ho-ho's to nats and run a fresh set each run or something? Unfortunately, thats racing... Not unique to SCCA at all.

Duke wrote:

JohnyHachi6 wrote: I was against the stock class shakeup because tires were/are the major expense in stock class and you can get super cheap used R-comps (A6's) from time-trial or road racing cars for dirt cheap/free.

WHERE? I keep hearing this. I've never found any.

By being a lucky SOB thats how, and in no way indicative of how the bulk of people racing in SCCA could do.

I am all for banning of r-comps in those classes.....The only people who didn't want them banned were the people who were the problem with the SCCA in the first place.

Tire compounds are still an arms race. If you show up for a "Street Tire" class with regular all season street tires you can NOT compete! You must still have the "right" tire. The newest breed or "street compound" tires are getting closer than ever to the "R" comps of yesterday even if their sidewall sports a higher UTQ number. Don't get me wrong the "Z2" is a capable and competent street tire, far more so than the "Kooks", The treadwear seems good, you can legitimately drive on a set all year and compete all year. This has eliminated the need for a second set of wheels and tires and trailering for a great many drivers but still requires you to pony up for the "right" tires if you want to compete.

Oh, you CAN daily a competitive ST car. But with no AC, PS, radio, and 700 lb springs would you want to? And in street my Miata has to ride on stock springs (wet noodle city).

It seems like there should be a simpler formula where your cars weight is divided by its horsepower and calibrated against its__. I know it's be tough to set up but it feels like there needs to be a better way.

Or maybe even have a local hotshoe turn a lap in everyones car one day and the differences between them all can be your local handicap.

In reply to KyAllroad:

That'd require scales and a dyno at each event though.......to prevent people from reducing weight/adding power each time(it'd happen)

That's one reason I love my Club. We have very few fully prepped cars but lots of fully prepped drivers. The majority of participants drive their car to the events.

evildky wrote: Tire compounds are still an arms race. If you show up for a "Street Tire" class with regular all season street tires you can NOT compete!

REally? They don't even let you register? Huh.... must have missed that lecture. I've watched guys go out on winter tires (Nokians actually) on a Miata and win the local class in ES. Well, I guess that still makes your theory true because he wasn't technically on all-seasons.

Look, the people that are serious and playing on a National level are still going to beat your ass. Period. I've had those people beat me in my own damn car by 2+ seconds in the past. So don't tell me it's all about what tires are on the car yadda yadda yadda. The people that are bitching are the people that will find a reason to bitch about getting a free car, holding the winning mega-millions lotto ticket and a handy from Angelina Jolie all happening at the same time.

KyAllroad wrote: Oh, you CAN daily a competitive ST car. But with no AC, PS, radio, and 700 lb springs would you want to? And in street my Miata has to ride on stock springs (wet noodle city). It seems like there should be a simpler formula where your cars weight is divided by its horsepower and calibrated against its________. I know it's be tough to set up but it feels like there needs to be a better way. Or maybe even have a local hotshoe turn a lap in everyones car one day and the differences between them all can be your local handicap.

<-- daily mine every day with AC, cruise, great stereo and seats. 600 frt, ~750 rear springs on a 2800lb fwd car. Hell, we drove that bitch to New Jersey last summer on those springs and the wife never said a word.