Scion FRS to start around $24,200?

RexSeven wrote: In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid: I'm just surprised at the huge disparity in mileage between manual and automatic models. YMMV of course, but I guess slushbox technology has come a long way. I still don't want one. In reply to NOHOME: Let us know your impressions and mileage if/when you get the Scion. We can compare notes with my V-6 Mustang once it arrives.

Yeah, the price is Canadian dollars, but in case you were not aware they are pretty much exactly the same as US dollars. Cars just cost more up here plus we add on 13% taxes; just something we have to deal with.

I had the Mustang on my short list, so on a recent trip to Callifornia I rented one. While I could not find anything wrong with it, I certainly did not fall in love with it either. Just did not have that factor that makes me want to fling it around a corner.

As to mileage? Can't say as I have ever bothered to observe with any cars I have driven. I know they need the suff and I out it in when the gauge says "E". If it is fun to drive, who cares?

One thing left out of the fuel economy figures on page 1....FRS/BRZ requires premium fuel.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2013&year2=2013&make=Scion&model=FR-S&srchtyp=ymm

HiTempguy wrote: Even if Canadian (it's price is still insane), I'll stick with a V6 mustang, or a 2.0T Genesis, or a Fiat 500 Abarth. In order to justify that price (especially compared to the hundreds of thousands of used miatas floating around) it better have out of this world handling.

JUST running the numbers, its not all that impressive.

FR-S: 2700lbs, 200hp, 151tq, 22/30 $24,200

Gen Coupe: 3360lbsm 274hp/275tq, 20/30. $24,250

Mustang V6: 3447lbs, 305hp, 280tq, 19/31, $22,310

The bigger difference to me is that the gen coupe is an ECU flash and exhaust away from 100+hp more than the FR-S and it makes 124tq more right off the bat and the mustang has it by 130ft/lbs.

Unless they turbo this beast, I think they're missing the boat the Koreans already left on... and Ford.

Ouch, I know that price will kill it for the wife. She was seriously considering trading in her Mazda 3 on one.

I really don't get the comparison to the Mustang and the Genesis. The competition seems to be more like Miata, S2000, RX8, at least from a gearhead perspective. The Ford/Hyundai are much larger, heavier cars.

ProDarwin wrote: I really don't get the comparison to the Mustang and the Genesis. The competition seems to be more like Miata, S2000, RX8, at least from a gearhead perspective. The Ford/Hyundai are much larger, heavier cars.

Because I'd bet most people aren't like us, the car will never see a track/auto-X, and they simply want something that "feels" sporty, accelerates quickly, and shows everyone they can afford that car.

ProDarwin wrote: I really don't get the comparison to the Mustang and the Genesis. The competition seems to be more like Miata, S2000, RX8, at least from a gearhead perspective. The Ford/Hyundai are much larger, heavier cars.

because for most people.. it is all about HP, driveline, and price. In that respect, the Mustang, Genesis, Miata, S2000, and RX8 are similar.

I begin to think we are the last bastion that worries about how cars "feel" going down the road

I was a bit shocked at the price, too. But then again:

2009 Honda S2000. ~240 hp, ~160 torque, ~2800 lbs. $35,000.

2012 Mazda MX-5. ~170 hp, ~140 torque, ~2500 lbs. $23,190 without limited slip or any other options.

Compared with the MX-5, it's a pretty good deal considering they all come with nav and a Torsen. Compared to the S2000, it's a screaming bargain. The Mustang and Genesis make interesting counterpoints, but I agree that the substantial weight difference puts them in another class. The Mustang at least has a usable back seat. The FR-S and Genesis rear seat can only be used by children, or adults without heads.

Joe is going to drive an FR-S in mid-April. We can give you driving impressions then.

failboat wrote: One thing left out of the fuel economy figures on page 1....FRS/BRZ requires premium fuel. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2013&year2=2013&make=Scion&model=FR-S&srchtyp=ymm

Yeah. That seals Abarth for me which I think needs premium but it gets much better mileage.

mad_machine wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: I really don't get the comparison to the Mustang and the Genesis. The competition seems to be more like Miata, S2000, RX8, at least from a gearhead perspective. The Ford/Hyundai are much larger, heavier cars.

because for most people.. it is all about HP, driveline, and price. In that respect, the Mustang, Genesis, Miata, S2000, and RX8 are similar. I begin to think we are the last bastion that worries about how cars "feel" going down the road

You sir "GET IT".

And if the FR-S does not have that "Feel" in the first few turns when I test drive mine, I will be walking home with my deposit.

The Mustang and Hyundai only come alive when you burry your foot. There is no pleasure in just having the wheel and brakes at your comand during the normal day-to-day driving that makes up 99% of the time. Mazda was the first and as far as I know, the las,t to get this principle when they indroduced the Miata in 1989 as an affordable underpowered product. They have slowly losing the thread. I have been waiting for a carmaker to who "GETS" this to come along and sell it in a price point I can afford. The Elise was certainly the car, but not in my pricepoint and I suspect a lousy winter driver.

Javelin wrote: Well, Toyota dealers are adding $6,995 to the Prius C: Plus $1,000 worth of wheel-lip moldings, door-edge guards, and mudflaps. So, by extrapolation, the first FRS's should sticker in the $32,000 range. I know Scion is supposed to be the "no-haggle" dealer model, but I've seen plenty of mark-ups there, too.

You should probably report those dealers that are doing that. It's against Scion's "rules" to do so. The dealers around here play by the rules, i've never seen a markup on a Scion.

Bobzilla wrote:

HiTempguy wrote: Even if Canadian (it's price is still insane), I'll stick with a V6 mustang, or a 2.0T Genesis, or a Fiat 500 Abarth. In order to justify that price (especially compared to the hundreds of thousands of used miatas floating around) it better have out of this world handling.

JUST running the numbers, its not all that impressive. FR-S: 2700lbs, 200hp, 151tq, 22/30 $24,200 Gen Coupe: 3360lbsm 274hp/275tq, 20/30. $24,250 Mustang V6: 3447lbs, 305hp, 280tq, 19/31, $22,310 The bigger difference to me is that the gen coupe is an ECU flash and exhaust away from 100+hp more than the FR-S and it makes 124tq more right off the bat and the mustang has it by 130ft/lbs. Unless they turbo this beast, I think they're missing the boat the Koreans already left on... and Ford.

Which of those three would those that care more about light weight and handling buy? It's a hardtop Miata, not a bloated quick cruiser.

93EXCivic wrote:

failboat wrote: One thing left out of the fuel economy figures on page 1....FRS/BRZ requires premium fuel. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2013&year2=2013&make=Scion&model=FR-S&srchtyp=ymm

Yeah. That seals Abarth for me which I think needs premium but it gets much better mileage.

I'm really surprised about the premium fuel considering its not turbocharged. I have changed my mind numerous times on NA cars that require premium fuel. It just doesn't seem right to me.

WHATEV'S $10k escort boy.

Winston wrote: $7000 market adjustment?! By my calculations, the average person would have to drive that Prius for 9 years before you'd save $7k over just buying a random econobox that gets 30 MPG average.

The people that would buy a 'Prius and pay an extra $7000 dollars just to have a Prius' can't actually do math or calculations. So your arguement isn't valid. They just know how much of a monthly payment they can afford for that warm blanket called smugness.

I heard this thing is going to be available with both torsen and clutch-type LSDs at launch.

The price seems decent and this is what I would buy if I was forced to get a new car...but it's not $24k better than what I have now.

Also there's a TRD body kit that mostly looks pretty good (similar to the FRS-2 concept), except the rear bumper which comes with ricey quad exhaust and a weird ass-draggy look. I'd go with the front and side pieces from the TRD kit and make a custom big diffuser like the FRS-2 concept had. Other off-the-bat mods would be megasquirt, ETC & ABS switches (if not included), wider rims (maybe bigger diameter too, I know going over 17" usually doesn't help but it looks sooo gooood) and sticky tires (comes with crappy eco-tires).

Bobzilla wrote: WHATEV'S $10k escort boy.

This is way too expensive. Too bad it's not $20k or so. I think most non-car people will jump to a Mustang for that price. Actually, I think most car people will jump to a Mustang for that price.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

failboat wrote: One thing left out of the fuel economy figures on page 1....FRS/BRZ requires premium fuel. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2013&year2=2013&make=Scion&model=FR-S&srchtyp=ymm

Yeah. That seals Abarth for me which I think needs premium but it gets much better mileage.

I'm really surprised about the premium fuel considering its not turbocharged. I have changed my mind numerous times on NA cars that require premium fuel. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Just because it is not boosted does not mean it cannot require premium. High Cylinder pressures are high cylinder pressures.. wether it comes from boost or high compression makes no difference

rotard wrote: This is way too expensive. Too bad it's not $20k or so. I think most non-car people will jump to a Mustang for that price. Actually, I think most car people will jump to a Mustang for that price.

Car people know the difference between a muscle car and a sport compact, and would probably be looking for one or the other vs. the people who just want something that looks sporty...

High cylinder pressures and lean-burn technology benefit via the higher octanes ability to avoid errant detonation. Our smart fortwo gets markedly better mileage with premium. I even did a math word problem at school based on it for some students. Nothing like algebra to prove your point.

I think the person looking at this car for $25k will not be thinking Mustang for $25k, they're really different products. I am surprised that they couldn't get the price lower thou.

You guys crack me up.......

In 1986 a Corolla GTS had a MSRP of around $9,500. This translates into about $20K in today's money. This new FRS / BRZ will cost around $24K

I find the extra $4K to be completely acceptable considering the new car has 200hp instead of 115hp. The new car weighs a bit more ( 2600lbs vs 2400lbs) but is infinitely safer, gets comparable gas mileage (with nearly double the power), and is much better looking. (IMHO) The new car also has a much better interior, and all the modern accessories that people demand. (I-pod connection, pw, pdl, a/c, etc, etc. etc.)

With all the safety and emissions regulations that modern automakers have to deal with, I think it is pretty impressive that they have brought this to market at this price point.

now I just want to see what it drives like.........

Both four-passenger coupes, front engine RWD and close price points.

Actually at 25k you've got a V6 Mustang with the track pack and possibly Recaros.

DaveEstey wrote: Both four-passenger coupes, front engine RWD and close price points. Actually at 25k you've got a V6 Mustang with the track pack and possibly Recaros.

And the Gen Coupe with it's track package at $26k with even more "doo-dads". I think they're jumping into shark infested waters with nothing more than a speedo here. Just my opinion.