Scion FRS vs Subie BRZ

For me the FR-S was a no-brainer; more available, cost less, more performance/driver's car suspension tune, and I happen to prefer the front end styling. I don't need navigation, silver interior trim, heated mirrors, lit door panels, etc. I'm sure I could be happy with a BRZ if I were handed one, but I wasn't going to pay more for one.

It weighs 15-20% more than my AE86 GT-S and has 55% more torque and 75% more power. The bottom of the "torque dip" people love to gripe about is still more torque than a 4AGE makes at peak. The bulk of my seat time is in Corolla GT-S, Integra, Civic Si, RX-7s, 320i, etc and the power is plenty adequate for me. Those stepping out of modified WRXs or domestic V8s may feel differently. It doesn't do a whole lot below 4000rpm, but that is part of the fun.

It is also worth noting that there is a huge range of potential sounds available with the exhaust aftermarket, with equal length and unequal length (why?) headers available. The stock setup is in four sections, and replacing some or all of the sections can vary sound a lot.

I sat behind & pulled up next to a BRZ in traffic today, in WRC blue or whatever they're calling that colour now. First one in the wild I've had a chance to really look over. It's an amazingly crisp & attractive design to me. Didn't seem any bigger than my FTO; nice low, wide stature. If I were in the market for a brand new car I reckon It'd be a toss-up between the BRZ or FRS (assuming I didn't hypothetically have Evora or Elise money to shell out.)

ae86andkp61 wrote: It is also worth noting that there is a huge range of potential sounds available with the exhaust aftermarket, with equal length and unequal length (why?) headers available.

Because of the sound, that's why.

FRS can be had at a baser trim level, less weight less E36 M3 I don't care about like navigation because I have a smartphone.

with equal length and unequal length (why?) headers available.

It's said that equal length headers makes subaru engines sound like a regular i4 engine. At least thats whats said in the community.

I wanted to consider the car but they needed to put a H6 in it at least as an option. I don't think I would consider it if it had a turbo either. I've been wanting either a non-centerfugal supercharged engine or a H6 in this chassis.

Used FRS's are less expensive than BRZ's because they start out that way?!

FRS pulled .96G on the stock tires and BRZ .91G in magazine testing (either C&D or MT) I have not driven a BRZ, but my FRS handling is what I would describe as absolutely neutral using 215/45-17 Kumho Ecsta XS on 17x8 +36mm offset wheels. Only other handling related changes I've done verses stock is replace the soft rubber stock steering rack bushings with solid aluminum ones (highly recommended, there are also Delrin ones as well) and added the Grimmspeed strut bar. The solid bushings got rid of the weird slight hesitation in steering/chassis just after initial turn in and provided better feel of the chassis. The well designed Grimmspeed bar made the front end feel more solid, smoothing out the bumps and holes, very noticeable improvement in ride quality.

I've had mine for nearly 2 years now and it just keeps getting better and better... love driving it. I've removed the resonator on the intake and did custom intake tubing from the airbox to throttle body and that seemed to improve throttle responsiveness a little bit. Exhaust was one of the first things I wanted to change...it just needed something different, stock was not to my liking. It was a long search, but I ended up with the catback version of this:

SRT exhaust

Only thing better sounding to me is the TRD Griffon project 86...

Griffon lap at Tsukuba

Currently working on redesigning the exhaust for fitment of a custom rear diffusor (to go from 80ish lbs of lift at the rear at speed to a few lbs of actual downforce. Will be reworking the exhaust into a center dual exit. I've already cut off the fake rear diffusor section and actually like the look better.

My original plan was to get a used NC miata, but once the FRS was finally about to come out I was liking it much better because: 1) I really don't like convertibles (was going to gut the whole convertible system [weight reduction!!] and permanently install a hard top if I ended up with a miata) 2)The interior is much better for a 6'2" driver and I like the aesthetic design philosophy better (tach front and center in the dash and an uncluttered interior feel. 3)Exterior design is what I've basically been waiting for in a car...sharply executed and slightly exotic coupe in an affordable package.

Though I like the looks of the FRS, this front end for it would be perfect! [but for the money they want for it...NO WAY!]:

Toyota and Subaru did a great job with the car, truly has a phenominal chassis and driving experience, they just need to iron out all the little kinks/issues with the rest of the car to make it perfect...still there's no other car I would want to be driving right now as my daily driver.

ae86andkp61 wrote: For me the FR-S was a no-brainer; more available, ...

More available for sure. There are 6 Frisbees sitting on the local Toyo lot collecting pollen and spiderwebs. If I were in the market today, it would certainly be on my list. It seems like a fun car (although I haven't driven one) and I like the looks.

The local Scion dealer has a bunch sitting around and they're still advertised at or slightly above sticker. They're all 2014's so they're not sitting too long, but I keep waiting for them to discount them. I expect that tax refund season will move a bunch of them.

Meh, if I want power I'll drive my Mustang. I'm eager to test drive one because I think I'd love it as a daily driver. I'm not going to actually do the test drive until I'm ready to buy, though, because I have a feeling immediately following said test drive I'd drive out of there $25,000 poorer.

In reply to kanaric:

Equal length headers make pulse tuning more effective in terms of exhaust scavenging and is a good way to maximize normally-aspirated power, hence the 'normal' sound. Designing one for a low-mounted boxer engine is a packaging challenge, and since most Subarus are tuned for economy or boosted, Subaru generally hasn't bothered with the hassle until this car.

I don't understand undoing the factory exhaust tuning to make it sound like it has a misfire, but the Subaru fanbois seem to like what they call a "rumble" so there are options both ways on the aftermarket.

In terms of pricing, another factor (at least around the NW) is that Scion has pure pricing and dealers aren't allowed to mark-up or negotiate on price. Subaru dealers can price cars how they want and wheel and deal. Last year when I bought and when availability for both cars was tighter, the price difference was even greater, with FR-Ss flying off the lots at sticker, and Subarus marked up a bit and still selling due to scarcity.

ae86andkp61:

Weren't you the fellow signing petitions or sending letters to have Toyota bring back the ae86 years ago? I recall a similar picture and ideology with my previous username.

The topic:

Best sports car under 50k, hands down. There is literally nothing on the new car market that tickles me for DD duty in this price bracket. Above 50? Make mine start with P and end with orsche.

Background - 2 NA Miatas (one NA, one FI) then went looking for something newer and was so disappointed with the NC Mx5 that I ended up jumping camps to a 2008 Civic Si. That car was sublime for a FF and probably the last, great civic. All I could catch myself thinking is if only it was RWD with similar specs. Voila, Toyobaru appears. I've had mine for a year, amazing car. The only other car I was considering in the price range was an S2000. The new vs. used debate is a slippery slope though.

In reply to rwdsport:

Yup, 'twas me with the petition to Toyota to make a modern take on the AE86 back in the '00-'03 era or so.

I would love to think that I had a hand in it even though the realist in me realizes that I may not have had that much of an impact.

At the very least I had been saying for over a decade that if any manufacturer made an affordable, driver-oriented, lightweight RWD car with a real roof, I would buy it, and until then I would keep pouring money into my 80's junkers. I wasn't in the right financial spot to pick up a Solstice coupe, but with the Toyobaru I had a chance to make good on those words.