Sergio Marchionne says Alfa are looking at Indy car!

At last there may be some truth to the rumors (desperate hopes) of a third engine manufacturer to join HonDuh and Chubby in Indy car.  Lot's of articles, all basically from the same quote, quoting Marchionne as saying he is at least considering it.

http://autoweek.com/article/indycar/alfa-romeo-looking-indycar

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns38038.html

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/marchionne-thinking-about-alfa-romeo-in-indycar-997199/

Honda and Chevy have both said they want a third engine supplier as it's expensive for them to supply half the grid each.  

Globally Alfa have gone from barely 70K units in 2013 to 150K units last year. They've only just reintroduced themselves into the US market and are only selling around 1,500 units a month here whic is way below their targets. I can see this as a great marketing opportunity. They are not selling to the NASCAR demographic and IMSA is taking off so fast they would be lost in the crush. With Indy car they could be one of three manufacturers. Enough to have real competition, but not so many the loose media coverage. It also fits perfectly with the high performance, high tech sporting nature they are going for.

I'm staying hopeful.

Oh, and just as Renault have branded their engines Renault, Infinity and TAG in F1 and Ferrari will be branding their engines Ferrari, Alfa and Maserati this year, this could be a co-branding opportunity to brand engines Alfa, Fiat or even Maserati here in the States.  I doubt they'd slap a prancing horse on the cam covers, but they could even do that.

Adrian_Thompson said:

Oh, and just as Renault have branded their engines Renault, Infinity and TAG in F1 and Ferrari will be branding their engines Ferrari, Alfa and Maserati this year, this could be a co-branding opportunity to brand engines Alfa, Fiat or even Maserati here in the States.  I doubt they'd slap a prancing horse on the cam covers, but they could even do that.

Would not be the first time a Ferrari Indy car was badged an Alfa Romeo.  At least if one was to really believe the stories in the CART era.

with what money? the FCA group is always worried about cash. I doubt this with proceed.

fidelity101 said:

with what money? the FCA group is always worried about cash. I doubt this with proceed.

It Marchionne, reality never seems to worry him too much!

Seriously, I'm sure the engine would be designed by a third party like like the chevy Indy car engine is (ILMOR) or the illfaited Lotus engine was (Judd)  While I'm sure developing an Indy car engine is mega bucks to us, in the grand scheme of things it's a whole lot cheaper than developing a road engine.  It's designed to perform over a very narrow set of parameters compared to a road engine and the the basics are all defied (# of cycle, V angle, package restrictions, turbo etc) so they don't need to spend R&D developing that side of it.  I'm not sure anyone here can talk to pure race engine R&D costs,. but perhaps  Eric can.  

alfadriver said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

Oh, and just as Renault have branded their engines Renault, Infinity and TAG in F1 and Ferrari will be branding their engines Ferrari, Alfa and Maserati this year, this could be a co-branding opportunity to brand engines Alfa, Fiat or even Maserati here in the States.  I doubt they'd slap a prancing horse on the cam covers, but they could even do that.

Would not be the first time a Ferrari Indy car was badged an Alfa Romeo.  At least if one was to really believe the stories in the CART era.

If I recall that was more of a Chevy ilmor copy as pat Patrick allowed one of them to be inspected by Alfa then they copied it which pissed Chevy off and why engine leasing came in.

Let's say we can only do one of two things to improve Alfa's sales in the USA.  Option 1 is getting into Indy Car racing.  Option 2 is a serious, year after year effort to improve quality, and show that focus every year in advertising.  Both efforts require a lot of engineering, management, marketing, and cash.  

Option 1 sounds like a great way to waste time and money and not grow sales.  I doubt, however, they actually go with Option 2.  Because they're FIAT.

alfadriver said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

Oh, and just as Renault have branded their engines Renault, Infinity and TAG in F1 and Ferrari will be branding their engines Ferrari, Alfa and Maserati this year, this could be a co-branding opportunity to brand engines Alfa, Fiat or even Maserati here in the States.  I doubt they'd slap a prancing horse on the cam covers, but they could even do that.

Would not be the first time a Ferrari Indy car was badged an Alfa Romeo.  At least if one was to really believe the stories in the CART era.

Yes I'm fully aware of the Ferrari 637.  I have wondered if this could be similar in that Ferrari keeps threatening to toss their toys out of the pram and quit F1.  If they already have an Alfa Indy program that threat has added weight behind it.  I doubt Ferrari would come to F1 until some point in the unknown future when they move away from spec Chassis, but it would make for some fun off season posturing and politics.   

MotorsportsGordon said:

If I recall that was more of a Chevy ilmor copy as pat Patrick allowed one of them to be inspected by Alfa then they copied it which pissed Chevy off and why engine leasing came in.

Didn't PAtrick giving that engine to Alfa effectively get him made persona non grate with the other engine suppliers so when Alfa pulled the plug no one would supply engine to a team he was involved in, effectively forcing him out of the sport leading to Chip Ganassi racing. Something like that, I was following from afar in those days.  

Adrian_Thompson said:

MotorsportsGordon said:

If I recall that was more of a Chevy ilmor copy as pat Patrick allowed one of them to be inspected by Alfa then they copied it which pissed Chevy off and why engine leasing came in.

Didn't PAtrick giving that engine to Alfa effectively get him made persona non grate with the other engine suppliers so when Alfa pulled the plug no one would supply engine to a team he was involved in, effectively forcing him out of the sport leading to Chip Ganassi racing. Something like that, I was following from afar in those days.  

Patrick had sold his first team to chip then took over the Alfa deal on a new team they had tried to get a Chevy deal when the Alfa one ended but were refused do to the allowing Alfa to take apart an ilmor. As a result he sold the team to their driver Rahal.

pres589 said:

Let's say we can only do one of two things to improve Alfa's sales in the USA.  Option 1 is getting into Indy Car racing.  Option 2 is a serious, year after year effort to improve quality, and show that focus every year in advertising.  Both efforts require a lot of engineering, management, marketing, and cash.  

Option 1 sounds like a great way to waste time and money and not grow sales.  I doubt, however, they actually go with Option 2.  Because they're FIAT.

Normal people have to know that buying an Alfa is even an option before they care about that other stuff. I wonder if the majority of BMW/Mercedes buyers even know that Alfa makes a competitor much less the Japanese luxury buyers. Is Indy the way to get them to notice? I have no idea, but they need to do SOMETHING if they want to start selling cars. 

My thought is that the people that do know aren't too excited about buying something that is poorly made and will spend a lot of time at a dealership trying to get it fixed.  BMW/Mercedes buyers aren't seeing those cars at Indy, either.

My daughter drives a Stelvio, annnnd misses her Charger.  Yes, improve quality and the whole driving experience not just chassis dynamics.  It does weird stuff and came home with a seat that would not adjust.

It might not be as expensive as we think.  I would imagine the series is desperate enough to get another manufacturer involved, especially one with Alfa's history, that they are willing to subsidize or cut deals to make it more attractive.  From FCA's side, if the initial buy-in is cheap enough, they have a chance to join a series that finally seems to be turning the corner in terms of attendance, TV ratings, and such.  

I'm hopeful, too.

ummm just got a company wide email for year end updates and it had this little nugget:

" Alfa Romeo had some significant news: the brand announced its return to Formula 1 for the 2018 championship season, "

fidelity101 said:

ummm just got a company wide email for year end updates and it had this little nugget:

 

" Alfa Romeo had some significant news: the brand announced its return to Formula 1 for the 2018 championship season, "

Yup, they are stepping up investment in the Sauber team who will be running Ferrari Engines badged as Alfa with lot's of Alfa sponsorship on the cars.  Think of it as the Ferrari B team like Scuderia Torro Rosso is the B team to Pink Bull.

Adrian_Thompson said:

fidelity101 said:

ummm just got a company wide email for year end updates and it had this little nugget:

 

" Alfa Romeo had some significant news: the brand announced its return to Formula 1 for the 2018 championship season, "

Yup, they are stepping up investment in the Sauber team who will be running Ferrari Engines badged as Alfa with lot's of Alfa sponsorship on the cars.  Think of it as the Ferrari B team like Scuderia Torro Rosso is the B team to Pink Bull.

I thought Haas was kind of the de facto Ferrari B-team.

Tom_Spangler said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

fidelity101 said:

ummm just got a company wide email for year end updates and it had this little nugget:

 

" Alfa Romeo had some significant news: the brand announced its return to Formula 1 for the 2018 championship season, "

Yup, they are stepping up investment in the Sauber team who will be running Ferrari Engines badged as Alfa with lot's of Alfa sponsorship on the cars.  Think of it as the Ferrari B team like Scuderia Torro Rosso is the B team to Pink Bull.

I thought Haas was kind of the de facto Ferrari B-team.

The talk is that Haas will be getting Maserati badged engines.  

jmabarone said:

Tom_Spangler said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

fidelity101 said:

ummm just got a company wide email for year end updates and it had this little nugget:

 

" Alfa Romeo had some significant news: the brand announced its return to Formula 1 for the 2018 championship season, "

Yup, they are stepping up investment in the Sauber team who will be running Ferrari Engines badged as Alfa with lot's of Alfa sponsorship on the cars.  Think of it as the Ferrari B team like Scuderia Torro Rosso is the B team to Pink Bull.

I thought Haas was kind of the de facto Ferrari B-team.

The talk is that Haas will be getting Maserati badged engines.  

Funny how 3 engines can represent 7 brands.  Mercedes is on their own.  Renault is also Nissan and Aston Martin.  Ferrari is Maserati and Alfa Romeo.  IMHO, it would be better if 7 different engines were used instead of just 3.

Hass have been a sort of quasi customer /B team, but Ferrari are putting significant Euro's into Sauber leapfrogging Hass to be an 'official' B team.  I don't think the Hass relationship is really changing much, it's more the upping of the anti with Sauber. 

I've also heard that the Hass / Ferrari relationship has been a bit strained over a)pushing drivers and b) they feel they should be getting more support.  I don't think the relationship is going south so much, more as Ferrari can excert much more control over what's happening at Sauber.

Screw F1, let's get back to talking Indycars.  This from a few days ago seems to be hinting at 2020 for new engines,  although other articles have hinted at 2022 for a major overhaul of the car.  Maybe it will be new engine regs in 2020 then new chassis in 2022.  Talk seems to be around more noise and more power.  Remember the howl of old CART engines?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DF8GTL0_rMA" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So both Ferrari cars and engines, and then rebadged Ferrari engines called Alfa's, will be running in F1 at the same time?  Did I read this right?

In reply to pres589 :

yes

Why not just emulate The K Foundation and burn the money for attention?

pres589 said:

So both Ferrari cars and engines, and then rebadged Ferrari engines called Alfa's, will be running in F1 at the same time?  Did I read this right?

Not quite.  You're correct on the engines, but F1 forces everyone to use their own chassis.  Hass (with Maserati badges), and now Sauber(badged as Alfa) will use everything they can from Ferrari, Engine, Trans, and as much of the ancillaries inc some of the wheel end parts as they are allowed under the rules, but the cars are unique.  A few years ago Torro Rosso tried to basically use the prior Red Bull Chassis and got told no.  The chassis and aero is unique.

That's exactly what I wrote.  Rebadged engines.  Why bother?  Anyone that cares about F1 will know, and anyone that doesn't won't be watching.