Shhhhhhhh.....mass loaded vinyl and sound deadening

The Mercedes has broken me. I need to learn about making other vehichicles quiet with the first victim being my truck.
First off, does anyone have any good general reading on the current state of the industry for aftermarket sound deadening? The more I can learn the better.
Second, has anyone used mass loaded vinyl in automotive applications? I understand how and why to use it, but there's not a ton of info out there about installation pitfalls and the tricks of making and installation last.

I'm actually going to be experimenting with the Frost King self adhesive pipe insulation this weekend on my road rally FB - I'll get back to you with phone decibel readings.

Watching this with interest. I've been researching.

The recipe I've seen is (bottom to top): a square or two of Dynamat on each panel to add mass & keep 'em from vibrating. Next a layer to decouple the sheet metal from the mass loaded vinyl. I'm thinking Reflextix would be the way to go (light weight, cheap + insulation value). Last, MLV on top.

I took me three times reading this before my brain registered 'The Mercedes has broken me' and stopped reading the (I thought) Inevitable 'The Mercedes has broken ON me' !!!

The biggest issue with sound insulation is mass is always king.

As a guy that has sound deadened and insulated everything he has ever owned I have some experience. Step 1 is to use the adhesive-backed Mastic from McMaster-Carr and apply it over at least 80% of the Interior surfaces. Make sure it fits into nooks and crannies and in between gapps and Sheet Metal. Apply with a roller and heat gun to make a good mechanical Bond. Next Step is to use foil backed jute carpet padding over as many large flat surfaces as you can. Lastly use spray adhesive and the foil backed bubble wrap from Lowe's over top of the Juke and any other surfaces you have clearance for. Then reinstall the interior.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: The biggest issue with sound insulation is mass is always king.

Which is probably why the R63 weighs over 5200lbs and is soooooooo good at being a car. I figure I can add a hundred and a bit pounds to the truck and not notice the weight, which is a big part of why it's the victim of experiments.

LuxInterior wrote: Watching this with interest. I've been researching. The recipe I've seen is (bottom to top): a square or two of Dynamat on each panel to add mass & keep 'em from vibrating. Next a layer to decouple the sheet metal from the mass loaded vinyl. I'm thinking Reflextix would be the way to go (light weight, cheap + insulation value). Last, MLV on top.

This is where I'm at theory wise as well.

Here's a GREAT thread on sound deadening a Honda Fit with CLD, ensolite and MLV. Should be very helpful.

http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-gen-ge8-specific-fit-interior-modifications-sub-forum/60885-sound-deadening-project-lots-pics.html

And another little thing I do is I use the foam weather stripping from Lowe's or Home Depot to make sure that there is no squeaks or rattles between a plastic interior panels and Sheet Metal

Hadn't heard of ensolite. May have to try that, though I don't see how it is much different than any other dense closed cell foam.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/mass-loaded-vinyl-soundproofing-very-satisfied-133782.html

Interesting read

I have to do something about the missus' Kia soul. That is the most fatiguing car I have ever been in. Trips over two hours require a half hour break. The road noise is a constant roar. You know it is bad when my massively lowered, extremely stiff 63 ford was the preferred road trip car. Now that the BMW is in the driveway we flat out refuse to take the Kia on our weekend trips to Portland, which is unfortunate because it gets much better fuel economy.

I was hoping the easy button was a spray on product like Lizard skin.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

That's the traditional way to do it and isn't much different than the truck came from the factory, the only difference being I can do it better. The interesting thing about the MLV is that it's really heavy, 1lb/sqft and floppy and is apparently the bees knees when it comes to actually attenuating noise.

There are choices to be made...

I have done a fair amount of work sound insulating my Corvair. The MOST important thing (a bit more relevant to an older car) is NO AIR LEAKS! Even the smallest air leak will transmit a LOT of sound!

Coating your interior with Dynomat ($$$$$) will certainly make you car quiet, but will also make your car really heavy. I don't know the number, but just putting soft rubber style insulation in the center of flat panel will do about 80% of the insulation of full coverage. Primarily because it stops the panel from acting like a drum. E.g. Just putting a nice square of heavy rubber in the middle of a door makes a huge difference for an old car.

Jute mat or closed cell foam does a good job of killing a lot of sound, but can get thick. Not sure about stuff like bedliner, but my guess is not much unless it is really thick.

Note on Dynomat: from my research, the primary advantage of Dynomat over much cheaper alternatives is that it has good adhesive and will hold well in cold or warm weather. Want to save a lot? Just get some asphalt (I believe there is a roof patching material that is readily available at Hime Depot) or heavy rubber style mat and use some good glue.

Learned something new today. Thanks

This is a good study guide. Sound Deadener Showdown

EDIT: 8th post in point's link has this site linked.

I have dynomatted a work truck cab. Every square inch, plus 3/8 inch sound barrier plus carpeting on top. It was a really nice truck to drive after. Decibal wise I don't think there was a huge difference, but it was very tight and squeak and rattle free. All the drumming and road noise was gone. This was a 30 year old GMC with a 3208 cat so I wasn't expecting miracles.

I wear earplugs when I drive the Mini for any length of time. Interesting thread. If jute makrs things quieter, then I'd hate to see how loud it would be without it.

I used rammat as a cheaper alternative to dynomat plus ensolite in the M2 a few years ago with to good effect.

One thing to remember is Dynomat is not going to provide good sound insulation. It's primary job is vibration control. You need mass to block the lower harmonic waves and that only comes from thick foam. I've used overkill pro from second skin with great results in the past. http://store.secondskinaudio.com/closed-cell-foam-ccf/ Combine that with a coat of your favorite dynomat like product and go to town.

I have plans of using LizardSkin Sound Control on my dual quad heim dart if I ever get around to finishing it... I'd seen in the past good reviews but that was sometime ago but I do not know of anyone who's used it personal yet. lizardskin.com

I read through everything you guys posted, thanks for that. I tapped on things and drove around and as far as I can tell, the worst area is the back of the cab and maybe the doors. I'll see if I can get enough material together to treat those and see what I think.

this is just where I'm at... and I've delayed the interior completion (2 years now!) because I just don't know........ as to my specific issue, the interior drone with the windows closed is a bit much, windows open no problem.

My issues:

1) Will the dynamat improve closed window drone? I still have the original tar based liner/underlayment. Do I have to remove the original underlayment to install the dynamat?

2) The car still has totally worn-out carpeting in it, I have new Jute backed carpet, and I purchased a 6'x 6' section so I can carpet the entire rear floor - including my storage compartment. Will the carpet reduce closed window drone?

Since the original underlayment is such a bear to remove (dry ice...) I wanted to be sure that what I do... actually works, because undoing it all will be a royal PITA.....

You can probably leave the original sound deadening material in place and just add additional in the places that need it. Carpet with a good backing does cut down on noise quite a bit.