Shiftable automatic vs regular automatic

bravenrace wrote: The only shiftable auto I ever drove that was worth a crap was in my '71 Formula 400. I put a manual valve body and ratchet shifter in the turbo 400. It did what I wanted when I wanted, no excuses.

Just to clarify my earlier post - THIS is what I'm talking about, although in my case it was a C6.

Electronic manumatics that think about shifting when you hit the button/lever are maddening. With a proper manual valvebody, the trans shifts NOW. If you practice, you can approximate a heel/toe downshift as well, although in practice it is better to wait to downshift until you're just coming UP on throttle.

It's definitely not the same as a manual trans but once you get used to the delay they can be a little fun. My wife has a Pathfinder with slush stick and for an SUV, what more do you want? It's not a sports car but when I pull into the subdivision on the downhill side and down shift, you can kind of feel the tires bite and accelerate around the corner. It's the most fun I get these days and I'll take it. :)

Woody wrote: I'm thinking about selling both of my Porsches to buy a new one with a PDK.

Oh no, aren't you afraid your going to 'ruin the driving experience'?

Iusedtobefast wrote: It's definitely not the same as a manual trans but once you get used to the delay they can be a little fun. My wife has a Pathfinder with slush stick and for an SUV, what more do you want? It's not a sports car but when I pull into the subdivision on the downhill side and down shift, you can kind of feel the tires bite and accelerate around the corner. It's the most fun I get these days and I'll take it. :)

You sound like you need to buy a Miata asap.

I'm really curious about the J-gate in a Jag.

I've never tried a manumatic that I enjoyed, including an Elantra. The delay kills me, as does the loss of muscle memory in gear selection. The latter might get better with experience, the latter probably won't. I hear the F-Type auto is quite competent, coming just shy of multiclutch systems.

I rarely use the paddles in my Fit, although I do regularly put it in automatic "S" mode when I need quicker access to lower gear acceleration. But even if I have it in manual "S" mode and select the next gear up, if I'm on the gas at all the revs barely drop because the computer still deems it necessary for the torque converter to be unlocked. This is far and away my #1 complaint with manually shiftable automatics. The only one I've driven that locked the torque converter in all gears, other than when at a stop, and even under WOT, was a run of the mill rental Beetle...That alone made an otherwise unbearable car, tolerable to drive for the next few days.

The torque converter is the main advantage of an automatic. It's not slipping like a clutch slips, it's multiplying torque. It's a fluid CVT when the output is below the stall speed.

That's why turbos are SOOOO much better with a properly matched torque converter. You get the triple whammy of being able to size the turbo for power and not low-end response, the ability to instantly get the engine up to the boost-onset speed, AND a hefty dose of extra torque multiplication. One GN in particular that I remember went from 7psi when you hit the throttle to 13psi, because the torque converter would flash higher. And the difference in the driving experience was incredible.

Normal Automatic. Blech
Button Shiftable say Tiptronic Kind of acceptable.
Automated manual like a PDK is very good.

But still I like a manual, even if it is slower then say a PDK car.

All of them are inferior to a 'bike box with a fuel/ignition cut on upshifts. I've seen times as low as 15ms for the ignition cut times on quickshifters. Smallest and lightest multispeed system I've seen for 50-1000 N*m input.

Failing that, a <100ms delay on a manual override that's a true override - i.e. will do what it is told NOW rather than waiting 500+ms to decide what the smoothest way to kick that downshift is - will be tolerable. It's a single table lookup to determine whether or not to refuse a downshift based on the old and new engine speeds after the shift. This should take <1ms.

I have this in my 350Z. Absolutely useless and disheartening. You look at it and think; "Hey! this could be fun!" and when you try it and you end up thinking "It was so much more fun, not knowing" :(.

Like being hungry and pouring oatmeal from the Captain Crunch box.

I hated them until I drove a newer GTI with the DSG auto. This particular car had a tune on it that made the gear changes FAST. It was like a video game, hit the paddle and you were instantly in the gear you wanted.

If they were all that good, I would have one in a heartbeat.

Woody wrote: I'm thinking about selling both of my Porsches to buy a new one with a PDK.

PDK isn't a manually shiftable auto, it's a twin-clutch robotized manual.

Every shiftable auto I've ever driven has been E36 M3ty enough that I was more interested in finding out what it would/wouldn't let me do than actually using it for performance driving. There are probably a few good ones out there, but everything I've had in rentals has been so awful I just leave it in auto mode.

I've been thinking about this for a few days. Many manumatics lack paddles. I'm sure the manual shift function is often electronic. I bet it'd be possible to retrofit paddles to a car that never had them. I'm not sure how I'd mount them, but it could be a fun little project.

I like them for being able to hold a gear. All of the ones I have driven would upshift on their own. Once you learn what that shift point is it's easy to adapt. My 05' compg had paddles, I used them a lot, after I had the ECM worked over it would happily hold a gear and bounce off the rev limiter. The shift's where also noticeably quicker especially on downshifts, due to the reprogramming which I believe upped the line pressure along with some other changes.

On a run up the dragon in my wife's Elantra yesterday I used the manual mode for the first time. I put it in second and it did a great job. Come out of one corner at around 3,000rpms accelerate up to about 6,000, hard on the brakes, turn in for the apex, accelerate and repeat. It did shift up to third on me twice but a quick bump while decelerating and it smoothly jumped back down into second. All I could ask for really.

My 96' Impala SS had a neat little trick. It didn't have a manual mode but if you dropped the shifter down to first and left it there it would upshift to second on it's own at redline, but, it would also downshift back into first as soon as the rpms dropped enough. Very eye opening in a decreasing radius sweeper.

For accelerating like in a drag race I wouldn't use it, just let the thing shift itself but on a tight twisty back road I absolutely would use them for holding a gear or downshifting coming into a corner.