Sitting low in a Miata?

Ah yes, the perpetual Miata problem...

Foamectomy isn't going to cut it in my case, even though I'm not that tall - if I sit in the Miata with the helmet on and a gangsta lean (aka "horizontal driving"), bumps on the track are still being telegraphed by the hardtop banging on my helmet. Even taking an inch out of the seat foam isn't going to get me low enough, even though I'm not that tall.

The Border CF seat (which I think is a Recaro "tribute") I used to have in the UK did get me just about low enough, but I stupidly sold that in the UK thinking I wouldn't get another Miata. Good move on my part.

For various reasons, I can't just bolt a Spec Miata seat to the floor[1], but need to retain the sliding mechanism and hopefully also the ability to bolt in the stock seats if/when the time to sell the Miata comes.

Poking around the usual forums suggests a few possibilities but not much in the way of hard data, so I hope I can get some informed comments (especially on the "how much lower do you sit" part) on here instead from people who actually had a chance in sitting one of these seats.

It looks like the likely candidates to get me to sit lower are:

• Axis Power Racing seat, advertised at sitting you up to six inches lower (I assume that's with all the cushioning removed)
• The Marrad seat the Goodwin Racing started selling recently. Again, looks like you have to remove the rear cushion for the desired drop. Similar cost to the APR seat
• Bride Low-Max seat on their low rails. That would be my preferred option as the VIOS III is FIA-approved (I'm talking about the real ones, not the "Canadian Mail Order Brides") but dropping over a grand on one seat with the rail and not know if I sit low enough is a little rich for my liking. FIA approval however is mostly a nice to have when/if I want to move up from PDX.
• Elise seats would probably do the job but I have a few concerns about the available mounting brakes (and not enough engineering skills to make good ones myself), plus I know first hand that they don't have much in the way of bolsters to actually hold you in the seat.

I reckon I need to sit at least two inches lower and ideally the seat should be comfy enough for DD use so I don't have to swap seats all the time. I'd like to swap out at least the drivers seat before the next PDX as it's pointless fitting a rollbar at the moment due to me sitting way to high.

What I don't like are tube frame seats - never found one that I was comfortable in, so I'm only looking at FG shell seats at the moment. Other brands are fine as long as I don't have to faff about with universal fit-nothing-properly seat rails and/or banging the living E36 M3 out of the transmission tunnel just in order to get the seat mount fitted.

What other seats should I be looking at? I'm not that big (33" waist, 180lbs, 5'11") and generally "narrow" seats aren't a bit problem for me.

[1] For starters, I'm about a foot taller than my wife and she has to be able to drive the car if needed.

As I recall, Tom Heath had some crazy expensive low sliding seats for small guys, but I can't remember the brand name. Someone at the home office should know.

Memory Fab.

Click and scroll down.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/miata-race-seat-bracket-options/10081/page1/

Thanks Woody - I was aware of the memoryfab rails (although they appear to have a bit of a "mixed" reputation in places) but it's also a question of "which seat" as a lot of the race seats still will seat you as high as stock or higher even with low rails.

BTW, the memoryfab rails aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of things, most of the rails I was looking at from the likes of Bride or Recaro seem to be in the $200-$300 range.

The MemoryFab seats are pricey.

Are you sure you need the sliders for your racing seat? If so you'll still be on the roof.

Sit in the car with the seat out & your helmet on, measure the distance from the top of your helmet to the roof and subtract an inch. That's about the best you'll do without rails or floor blisters, and you won't match it with rails. If you still want/need rails - good luck with it, I can offer no help.

If you're willing drop the rails for the track seat & keep them for street I have a suggested setup. My solution was to cut the blisters and through bolt all 4 corners of the racing seat with 4"x4" x1/8" backup plates. The front mounts were drilled through the cross brace and floor. The back was through the floor only. To switch back to street I used the stock front mounts & bolts on the cross brace and added some ~2" extensions to the rear rail mounts that brought them back to the new seat mount holes. Those extensions were heavy 2 x 1/4" stock. Changeouts took 15-20 minutes.

Stay away from Axis Power seats unless you can try them first. We had one at the shop and it was cripplingly uncomfortable for all of us.

My race Miata has modified Corbeau FX1 Pro seats bolted straight to the floor pan and with custom cushions. Next lower would be to sit on the floor. My wife can drive by adding a second cushion.

Going to need to eventually do a seat on mine.

I did the bottom shovelpan area foamectomy on mine, but still have to sit a touch awkwardly in the car with the hardtop on while wearing a helmet.

I have a rebadged bottom mount cobra monaco to install. Going to have to make a hard mount bracket and see where I am at relative to a tape measure approximation of a hardtop roll bar.

Only thing I dislike about the Miata, it seems like they designed the car for someone who was 5'6". I'm only 6'2", not that tall by todays standards!

This is now on my watchlist. Keep posting options. I'm going to have similar problems soon. Daughter and I are setting up "our" 99 Miata for track. Have already installed a Harddog M2 bar. I'm 5'11" and with helmet don't have the clearance so will have to go lower for me. Don't back the top but not below the bar as required. Daughter is 5'4"-5'5" and does meet clearance with helmet, barely so a little lower wouldn't hurt for her either. Issue is because our height difference, will either need the seat to be able to adjust or use cushions to compensate. I prefer seat adjustment, other say bolt straight to floor and use cushions. I am leaning towards seat adjust for an additional reason of what Tom Heath said, be able to move seat back to make getting in and out easier. I'm not getting any younger. I will need a slightly wider seat than Tom H. used though, 36" waist for me. Daughter is a lot thinner so will have to use padding on the side for her.

I'd try the foamechtomy anyways before doing anything radical. Its costs nothing and, if done properly, takes about an hour and a half and can be reversed completely in about the same amount of time. I took about an inch and a half of material out and got about an full inch of lowering into the seat. The benefits are extra head room, a better view through the windshield (no more traffic light gansta lean to see the light change) and my head is now solidly in the middle of the headrest. Probably most importantly, if I ever get the cellphone talking soccer mom high speed SUV trunkechtomy, my head should go into, and not over, the headrest. The only comfort issue is, since I sit further down into the seat, my George Costanza wallet is downright painful on the backside. Other than that, there are no down sides. DOOOOO EEEEEEET!

Keith wrote: Stay away from Axis Power seats unless you can try them first. We had one at the shop and it was cripplingly uncomfortable for all of us.

That's exactly the sort of info I was after, thanks. Just saved me a bundle .

Keith wrote: My race Miata has modified Corbeau FX1 Pro seats bolted straight to the floor pan and with custom cushions. Next lower would be to sit on the floor. My wife can drive by adding a second cushion.

The problem is the distance to the pedals as I've got fairly long legs.

Re the "rails make you sit higher" comment - that is true to a certain extent, but mainly for bottom mount seats. Apart from the Axis Power Racing seat, the seats in my list above are all side mounts .

Basically what you need is a seat that has an indentation under the cushion that is lower than the rails or at the same height. The Border seat I used to have has exactly that, but not a lot of other seats do.That's where the Bride came in as IIRC it's one of the few readily available seats that has this feature.

How tall are you people? I'm 6'1" and a foamectomy provides plenty of room inside my hardtop.

5'11" as mentioned above. I've been in a Miata that has had a fairly radical foamectomy and I still didn't get the sort of helmet clearance I was after if the seat back was upright enough. Maybe I just need to get used to driving around with some gangsta lean. Or buy a vehicle with more headroom...

Honestly, if you're only bumping your head on the track with your helmet on, and your seat it where you want it (or close to where you want it), I can't believe you won't get what you want out of a foamechtomy. I did a fairly mundane example (only cutting the portion of the foam that fills up the depression on the seat pan) and gained a full inch of room. The seat is actually more comfortable and form fitting. It feels like you are sitting in the seat rather than on top of it, if that makes sense. If, however, you are already gangsta leanin' it and are bumping your head anyways, and you want a more upright driving position, you're probably right, you won't get what you want out of it. I'd love to have a more upright driving position, but unless you bolt the seat to the floor, and lose any semblance of adjustability (or spend an insane amount of money for a quality seat/side-mount slider combo), its just not going to happen in a Miata.

DaveEstey wrote: How tall are you people? I'm 6'1" and a foamectomy provides plenty of room inside my hardtop.

I'm guessing that you don't have a roll bar...

I have one going in, but I'm making it myself.

I also don't drive with my seat pushed all the way back.

kazoospec wrote: If, however, you are already gangsta leanin' it and are bumping your head anyways,

That's the badger. A foamectomy would improve the "normal" driving position for me so I'm probably going to do a mild one anyway.

kazoospec wrote: unless you bolt the seat to the floor, and lose any semblance of adjustability (or spend an insane amount of money for a quality seat/side-mount slider combo), its just not going to happen in a Miata.

I think that's what I'm going to end with. Which is fine by me, I just want to make sure I'm not spending my money on the wrong expensive seat/side mount slider combo.

The good thing about quality seats is that you can usually keep them for a long time in multiple cars if you don't "outgrow" them.

You could try this:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/lowering-miata-seat-rails/35347/page1/

I'm so glad that I don't have to lose any more sleep over Miata seats!

So, you've got long legs AND a tall upper body AND you're 5'11"? Weird. :)

It's not easy to find a single seat that will work for someone who's 5'11" and someone who's 4'11" - as you say your wife is a foot shorter than you. One trick is to cut out the rear seat mounts so the tracks are at a steeper angle. It gets the seat lower for the tall driver but lets the shorter still see over the wheel. Combined with a well-done foamectomy, that should work pretty well. By "well done", I mean cutting the foam with a bunch of test sits and also addressing the rear cushion as well. And you'll need a pillow for your wife, but it's pretty easy to slide something behind the center panel in the rear of an NA seat.

Okay here's how to sit low in a Miata (you can get way more than 2" lower than stock by doing the following):

1. Buy an extra set of stock seats that you can hack up and not cry if you screw it up

2. Do a basic foamectomy by cutting off the square part of the underside of the seat foam off (as detailed on miata.net).

3. Re-attach the sliders to the metal part of the seat bottom. Leave the foam out for now. Place the metal seat pan and sliders in the car.

4. Slide the seat all the way forward then all the way back. Note how much distance there is between the bottom of the seat and the carpet.

5. Take a big hammer ( I used a 2lb ball-peen) and gently bash the metal seat pan until it just skims the top of the carpet when you slide the seat back and forth.

6. Pick up a cheap belt sander at Harbor Freight. Buy a 50 grit belt at your local hardware store.

7. Now use the belt sander to remove foam from the top surface of the bottom seat cushion. Keep the sander moving rapidly as a 50 grit belt makes very short work of seat foam. Concentrate on removing foam at the back of the seat-- that's where your hips will be. Be sure to create a smooth transition from the back to front of the seat.

8. Stop periodically and see how you like the height and fit of your custom super low seat. I did this three times (putting the seat fully back together each time). After each time, I was surprised at how comfortable the seat bottom was with minimal foam. I currently have about 3/4" of foam at the back of the seat and it's quite comfortable.

For track days, eventually I decided I wanted a seat with more lateral support that could be used with a 6 point harness. I bought one of these: http://www.sonicmotor.com/VS3-Full-Bucket-Seat-p/s-k109-clr.htm It's a Bride copy for under $300 shipped. The bottom of the seat is rounded fiberglass. It extends below the mounting surface. Note: I have a 31" waist. If you're much wider than that you don't want this seat, order the wider version. My hips are snug in this seat.

I bought 1/8" thick x 2" wide mild steel strips at my local hardware store. I ran these front to back and attached them to the factory seat mounting points. I then attached the Bride's seat mounts to the metal strips. There are adjusters on the mounts that come with the seat. They allow the height of the front and back of the seat to be set. In my car, the bottom of the racing seat is hard up against the floor. This puts me very low in the car. When I drive on the track, I remove the bottom seat cushion ( attached to the seat with velcro). Then, I'm sitting ~3/8" higher than I would if I were just sitting on the floor, but I'm in a racing seat. It's very low

The doors close without problem. The seat just touches the door panel. I did have to do some bashing of the driver's side tunnel with a hammer to make the seat fit. The bashed part is under the carpet so you'll never know it's there. hope that helps.

Bride makes, or used to make, a seat that's actually specifically fitted to the Miata. They're so closely contoured that they have to make separate left and right versions. I think you have to find somebody who can get one from Japan, though, I don't know that I've ever seen a US distributor carry them.

I am 6' 2" have a 34 inch inseam and weigh 230lbs. I have been building my own cars for 11 years. In order to have the most room and to be the most comfortable I made a mold of my back and butt and then made a fiberglass shell. I had a simple cover with thin padding made. The seats look old style good in my opinion. I drive my cars a lot and have made a 6,000 mile trip using my seat, driving up to 18 hrs per day.

I recently have purchased a couple of 1990 Miatas. I installed my seat and now sit as low as I want and have great room. Actually need to extend the steering wheel a couple of inches to be perfect.

Having Fun

In reply to jmc14:

Any pictures of the seats?