Small update to $2013 Challenge Rules

In response to demand, weld in cages are now legal at the challenge. Weld away, folks! The website is updated to reflect the change.

Oh poop......

We're taking a page from what we saw at One Lap: some cars had weld-in cages, some didn't. No one seemed to really mind.

oh that's just mean

Ranger50 wrote: Oh poop......

MMMMMmmmmmyessss? I think this is a good call. Especially for anyone who's trying to do the LeChump/BABE/Challenge trifecta. I don't see it offering a huge performance advantage. I DO see it offering a huge safety advantage. Don't wanna run a cage? Don't run a cage. You'll be hard-pressed to convince me that the weight penalty is worth any measurable advantage, if it was, you'd already be running a cage and taking the budget hit for it, RIGHT?

I'm all about about people making their cars safer without having to consider it in the budget.

poopshovel wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: Oh poop......

MMMMMmmmmmyessss? I think this is a good call. Especially for anyone who's trying to do the LeChump/BABE/Challenge trifecta. I don't see it offering a huge performance advantage. I DO see it offering a huge safety advantage. Don't wanna run a cage? Don't run a cage. You'll be hard-pressed to convince me that the weight penalty is worth any measurable advantage, if it was, you'd already be running a cage and taking the budget hit for it, RIGHT? I'm all about about people making their cars safer without having to consider it in the budget.

Heh... I knew it, just knew it.

But on the topic, is there a potential advantage? Sure. Is it a huge advantage? Depends on which flexible tin can with which you started. But across the board, not really. And as always, nobody MADE you HAVE to put in said cage.

Either way, I believe this is a GOOD positive move. Over the past years of reading the mag coverage, some of those cars needed safety added.

Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though.

Poor planning doing this now

aussiesmg wrote: Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though. Poor planning doing this now

Aussie needs some sort of.....something after he put the effort he did into the bolt in cage. Maybe we should set up a beer fund for him.

mazdeuce wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though. Poor planning doing this now

Aussie needs some sort of.....something after he put the effort he did into the bolt in cage. Maybe we should set up a beer fund for him.

Sure, that works.

The choices were to either wait until 2014 or just do it now. We're trying to keep this simple: less rules, more fun and creativity.

And yes, the rules need a real rewrite. That will happen for 2014. We want to talk to you guys, too, before publishing the new rules. Yes, we want your input.

I'm ok with weld - in being approved.

As far as input for the future, parts car should be allowed to turn a profit to help the budget. (sell $600 in parts off your $500 parts car = +$100 to the budget)

perhaps a 50% cap like the primary car to keep it from getting too nuts?

aussiesmg wrote: Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though. Poor planning doing this now

ADAPT! OVERCOME! HTFU!!!

Hm.... rusty E36 M3box with a NASCAR cage?

aussiesmg wrote: Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though. Poor planning doing this now

Bummer. That was an impressive bolt-in mounting solution too.

VWguyBruce wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though. Poor planning doing this now

Bummer. That was an impressive bolt-in mounting solution too.

Just because an alternate way is allowed doesn't mean that you won't get some credit for other creative solutions. Present your case to the judges. Maybe you now have points avaialable that weren't there without this rule if you spin it right.

jg

Maybe there should be a double or nothing amendment with the weld in cage rule, its only a freeby if your quarter mile e/ts justify it. If they don't then it must be covered in the budget.

Just throwing out an idea to help reduce cost creep and abuse.....

Gearheadotaku wrote: I'm ok with weld - in being approved. As far as input for the future, parts car should be allowed to turn a profit to help the budget. (sell $600 in parts off your $500 parts car = +$100 to the budget) perhaps a 50% cap like the primary car to keep it from getting too nuts?

The entire goal with the rules revisions is to keep things fun rather than encourage people to look for loopholes to exploit.

To bring cool cars. To help people develop their skills. Next time you have a thought that begins with, "Man, it would be really cool if..." see if you can add, "on a $20XX budget" to the end of that. Then see if you can do it rather than wait for someone else.

Twincharge a vintage Beetle.
Stuff a '90s Audi V8 into a VW Quantum Syncro (I hear it's a bolt-in at least on the trans).
Le Car (because it's dumb enough to be mid-engine FWD, dammit).
An Earthbound theme.

Basically, if you think it's something cool that you think somebody should do, be the person that goes and does it. At the end of the day, even if it fails horribly, we'll all share high-fives, beers and laughs.

And we're pretty sure the whole roll cage thing is a wash in most cases, and a performance deficit in others (significant weight). Besides, many LeMons and Chumpcars already have weld-in cages, and we don't want to leave them out of the competition.

David S. Wallens wrote: And yes, the rules need a real rewrite. That will happen for 2014. We want to talk to you guys, too, before publishing the new rules. Yes, we want your input.

Locost class! I may even be moving to FL about the time I am done with mine...

I'm not entirely OK with the cage thing strictly for The Challenge, but with the other opportunities coming around for crapcans to race elsewhere, i suppose it makes sense.

I may very well cage my car next Spring in preparation of One Lap and/or some land speed racing.

bgkast wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: And yes, the rules need a real rewrite. That will happen for 2014. We want to talk to you guys, too, before publishing the new rules. Yes, we want your input.

Locost class! I may even be moving to FL about the time I am done with mine...

That's what the specials class is used for....and it allows zambonis, too.

I thought scratch built cars had to run in the exhibition class, maybe I need to re-read the rules.

bgkast wrote: I thought scratch built cars had to run in the exhibition class, maybe I need to re-read the rules.

Normally, the cars running as exhibition-only are ones that are judged to be unable/uneligible to compete.(see rule 30.) You bring something, it is protested, the committee decides that you were cheating, so you can go home or stay and go through the motions, knowing that your car's times will not be considered in the results.

The Specials thing is different. That's a legitimate competition class. The "Exhibition" is because they are an entirely different type of car

Here's the rule:

A Special class for locosts/race cars/kit cars/etc. will be run for exhibition only. It will be scored independently from the rest of the competitors. The Special-class competitors will only be eligible for the Special-class trophies, unless one of them explodes spectacularly. Then we may reconsider. Special-class cars must also meet the classification requirements for a recognized autocross class (for example: SCCA’s A Modified). These cars must meet all Challenge budget rules and safety regulations with the following exceptions: a) The cars do not have to be roadworthy. Headlights, windshields and horns are not required. b) Non-DOT approved racing slicks are allowed.

You are correct; i.e. that it does say specials are "for exhibition only," but there is a trophy for fastest specials class. This makes sense....nobody would be surprised if a legrand clone with full race slicks kicked a corolla's butt.

aussiesmg wrote: Not happy this is done after I did the cage within the rules up until today though. Poor planning doing this now

i accept that you may not be happy, but you really aren't out anything. you came up with a cool way to make your cage $0 by the previous rules. then you posted pix of it, so pretty much anyone else who wanted to cage their car without hitting their budget could just copy your mount design. now, the rules are changed to all cages are free. same end result as you showing off / sharing your design.

this is steve. he's having a winge about the new cage rule. HTFU, steve.

and FWIW, i still think anything on the car should be in the budget, including all "safety" components and tires.