Snow tires are no good for RallyX, rally tires are too expensive, so what's next?

Ok, so I finally give up on the idea of using snow tires for rallycross. The rubber compound is too soft and they wear out too quickly. The picture below is of a Yokohama Ice Guard on the front, yes FRONT, of my 300zx after just 3 events. There's no point in showing the rear tires because they were totally obliterated. Rally tires would be nice, but by the time I get a new set in my proper size shipped to my front door, I'm looking at $1000 for the cheapest Dmack. There's no way that's even remotely in the realm of good reason for a $500 car. As far as used rally tires, I give up on that also as they are impossible to find, and when I do find them they are the wrong size.

So the question is- where do I go from here?

What size do you need?

Ice tires are soft. You need studdable snow. Preferably old ones that are hard as rocks.

The Z car size is 215/65/15'ish. I've run everything from 207/70s to 225/60s without issues

The car might have only cost $500, but you're still racing it. If the rally tires last a lot longer than snow tires, then maybe they're worth the extra cash in the long run.

BFG Mud-Terrain T/A KM2 in a 215/75-15? On the light end for a truck tire, but it should grab the dirt.

Truck tires?

215/75-15 Mud Terrains?

Will 14's work? 195/75-14 is a common size...

I haven't tried a 14" wheel, but I'm not sure they would fit over the brakes

Aeromoto wrote: The Z car size is 215/65/15'ish. I've run everything from 207/70s to 225/60s without issues

Look for stock size cast offs from a mini truck, s10 or ranger ish.

My Firestone Winterforce tires showed no significant wear after the rallycrosses I did on each set of them (one in the Miata, one in the P71 - different sets and sizes, obviously). I didn't Bob Costasfoot around, either - I won my class each time. That particular model seems popular for rallycross use. It is, as Fueled by Caffeine suggested, a studdable snow tire, not an ice tire.

edit: Wow. "Bob Costasfoot." That's hilarious.

I will say that part of the problem is the surface at the facility that most of our events are held at, it's a crushed coral rock aggregate, which is basically like racing on a 70 acre grinding wheel.

Aeromoto wrote: I will say that part of the problem is the surface at the facility that most of our events are held at, it's a crushed coral rock aggregate, which is basically like racing on a 70 acre grinding wheel.

I have no idea why you are racing on one of the softest compound tires known to man then.

As others have said, cheap snows are the way to go. Also, this may come as a surprise, but rwd cars CAN still understeer :p Might want to practice your technique a bit

HiTempguy wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: I will say that part of the problem is the surface at the facility that most of our events are held at, it's a crushed coral rock aggregate, which is basically like racing on a 70 acre grinding wheel.

I have no idea why you are racing on one of the softest compound tires known to man then. As others have said, cheap snows are the way to go. Also, this may come as a surprise, but rwd cars CAN still understeer :p Might want to practice your technique a bit

I've won 2 regional points championships, I'm pretty sure my technique is ok

We used to run all terrains on the front of our buggie and mud terrains on the rear and the wear was pretty good. You can maybe borrow a tire groover for side bite. I don't know the rules for rallycross. Back in my off road days this combo worked very good.

I think you first need to figure out if you can or cannot fit a 14 inch wheel, and thereby can or cannot fit truck tires. The truck tires would be my first choice. After that it's time for a cost analysis with the rally tires.

In reply to mazdeuce:

you can also get smaller mud terrains on a 15inch wheel aswell bfg lists a 215/75R15 on their website.

Are tires unlimited? I would think (maybe I'm full of E36 M3) studded snows would be the way to go. They come up CHEEEEAP here on craigslist every now and then. I think tire shops order them for people and then the people never pick them up.

Ok, I'm sure anyone can do this, but here goes.
A 205/65-15 has a 5.5 inch sidewall and a 26 inch diameter.
The 215/75-15 has a 6.3 inch sidewall and a 27.7 inch diameter. It's quite a lot bigger.
A 195-75-14 has a 5.8 inch and a diameter of 25.5. It's just a bit smaller.
General also has their Grabber AT2 in 205/75/15 which has a 6.1 inch sidewall and a 27.1 inch overall diameter. It's bigger, but not as much as BFG.
The Yokohama Geolander AT-S comes in a 205/70-15. Not as aggressive but a tire cutter could probably fix that. The geolanders are also $95 each which isn't bad as long as your class allows you to cut the tires.

poopshovel wrote: Are tires unlimited? I would think (maybe I'm full of E36 M3) studded snows would be the way to go. They come up CHEEEEAP here on craigslist every now and then. I think tire shops order them for people and then the people never pick them up.

National SCCA rallycross rules prohibit studded tires except for events on snow/ice surfaces. NER grants an exception to that and permits studs year round. The thing is that dirt and gravel surfaces will rip those studs out in a heartbeat.

Still, my ex in Maine had a way of finding awesome deals on lightly used studded snow tires. With NER's rules and the cheapness of the tires, it was worth it.

As mentioned above, those were ice tires. Go with snow tires. The ice tires have a super soft rubber compound. There are a few tires that are marketed as all-season tires, but still have the snow tire mountain snow flake logo.....those are the ideal ones to get in my opinion as they will have a very hard compound. I don't believe you can use studs, unless your regions specifies if for the event. There are also tread void rules, so if going with an off-road tire, be careful of your choice. Off-road tires can also be soft compounds so choose wisely. If you want a cheap new rally tire, try dmacks.

I have four+ winters and four rallx on a set of nokian RSi's and they still have plenty of life left. I've used them on a variety of my subies. A set of bridgestone blizzaks only lasted two winters and no rallyx. Some of the more ice oriented snow tires just don't last in general.

Most of the subies and e30s locally were running Winterforces or other snow tires (not "ice" tires). In the summer events the clay at SUmmit is like tarmac, and even tears up rally gravel tires. But AFAIK pretty much everyone ran all season on their Winterforces and similar....

Has anyone ever durometered a Winterforce? These Yokohamas were punching as low as 40 when they still had tread blocks on them.

At one point I was really hoping to talk Towel City into casting some of their ice racing tires in a hard compound, but the sales rep I talked to had never heard of rallycross or even stage rally for that matter. Oh well....

http://www.towelcityracingtires.com/15__Ice_Racing_Tires.html

Cooper Weathermaster ST/2's or their Mastercraft counterpart are a good hard rally snow tire with a good stiff sidewall.

I always buy cheap used snow tires off CL. My wear always depends on track conditions.

I just fish around to stage rally teams that run old Subarus. They always seem to have 14" and 15" used gravel rally tires available for cheaper than a new set of snow tires. Try on specialstage forums....

Aeromoto wrote: I will say that part of the problem is the surface at the facility that most of our events are held at, it's a crushed coral rock aggregate, which is basically like racing on a 70 acre grinding wheel.

If you are talking about Homestead, I don't think anything will last real well there. I would go super hard compound like RE92 all seasons...They always seem to suck for a long time.

Per Schroeder wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: I will say that part of the problem is the surface at the facility that most of our events are held at, it's a crushed coral rock aggregate, which is basically like racing on a 70 acre grinding wheel.

If you are talking about Homestead, I don't think anything will last real well there. I would go super hard compound like RE92 all seasons...They always seem to suck for a long time.

Actually no, not Homestead. the Central Florida region took over the rallycross program from the South Florida region, and we don't make it that far south anymore. We mostly run at St Lucie fairgrounds, which has the coral rock surface. We did a few evnts up north at the FIRM rally school in Starke but their surface isn't much more forgiving, they have a crushed limestone aggregate that was put down by Uncle Sam when it was a WW2 bomber training base.

Rumor has it that we may do some events at East Bay Raceway in Tampa, which should be red clay and hopefully a lot less abrasive.