So am i alone?

I prefer timing belts in non-interference engines. When it breaks, just tow it in and replace the belt and maybe the tensioner while you are in there.

When a timing chain goes it it usually chews up a bunch of $$$E36 M3

I actually considered having a set of pistons made that had bigger valve reliefs in them to increase the clearance. Combine this with shaving the head to bring clearance back down and all would be good.

LOL. (fixed)

JtspellS wrote: It is not the issue of the engines themselves, it just feels like someone said lets just be cheap here. Just one of the things in the back of my mind that bothers the hell out of me dunno really why it does

not so much cheap.. but belts were (are) quieter and lighter than chains

Taiden wrote: The intake and exhaust valves are interference, but the valves and pistons are not. The intake and exhaust cams are gear driven, while each set of cams are on a belt. So you have interference valves that cannot possibly skip a tooth unless you manage to complete shave all the teeth off your cam gears. All the time having a non-interference engine with a timing belt. At least, that is what the internet tells me.

I'm thoroughly confused by this as well.

z31maniac wrote:

Taiden wrote: The intake and exhaust valves are interference, but the valves and pistons are not. The intake and exhaust cams are gear driven, while each set of cams are on a belt. So you have interference valves that cannot possibly skip a tooth unless you manage to complete shave all the teeth off your cam gears. All the time having a non-interference engine with a timing belt. At least, that is what the internet tells me.

I'm thoroughly confused by this as well.

Yeah, I was too at first. Thought about it for a bit and figured out that the valves won't contact the piston like an interference engine but the valves will hit each other, the intake hitting the exhaust and operated by gear on the cam. Odd but whatever works.

Dunno... Taiden' s post made sense to me...

This subject seems to come up often in TDi forums. As mentioned, noise and weight is better with a belt. The only real advantage of a chain is it usually gives you some sort of audible warning when it's about to fail. But if it does fail, a chain typically does a lot more damage.

It's a $40 part that lasts for 120,000 miles and takes a couple of hours to change. Not sure how that becomes a deal breaker.

unless you hate doing the maintance on it? I have yet to see a belt your average home mechanic cannot do in a couple of hours

No belts here, I even avoid chains if possible.

The majority of my fleet have gear-driven cams.

No FWD or automatics either. I like simplicity.

Shawn

I perfer chains, in the @ 400K miles I have put on cars with chains I have not had one fail yet. For me it boils down to one less thing I have to worry about.

Now if tomorrow the chain in my car snaps I reserve the right to change my mond.

JtspellS wrote: I will avoid at all cost buying a vehicle with a timing belt, am i the only one?

its cheaper than a chain.......

ever hear of a car that has a belt and chain combo? my sho has a belt from the crank to intake cams on one side of the engine, and chain across the intake/exhaust cams on the other side of the engine.......brilliant eh?

yes.. VW and Hyundai also do it. Belt from crank to exhaust cam.. chain between the cams.

Haven't figured out if it is the best or worst of both worlds

I don't drive enough for the 100k miles a good belt will last to be a hardship. They're cheap, easy to replace, and work. So no, I've never worried about the timing belt vs. chain when buying a car.

mad_machine wrote: unless you hate doing the maintance on it? I have yet to see a belt your average home mechanic cannot do in a couple of hours

A T B change on a TDi is a bit mote involved than average. Book time is around 8 hrs and the TDI-gurus can do it in about half that. There's just a bunch of crap that has to come out as well as more than a few special tools. Not to mention a laptop program to check and adjust the injection timing when you're done.

well.. that is a TDI.. more to them than your typical gasoline engine

I guess... didn't seem like much less had to come apart to get at the TB in my E30...

The main difference in a TDI is locking down the cam and injection pump is critical, but the pullies on them sort of "float" when doing a TB change, which is why the 'mark & pray' method often results in tears. Not a lot of tolerance in a TDI for the valves being even slightly out of time.

So yeah... I guess compared to all of that, the M20 was pretty simple - just make sure the TDC marks stay lined up.

I don't exactly love them, but I'd rather replace a belt than timing chain parts. I had a belt snap on a 16v GTI and take out the whole motor while I was an 11 hour drive from home. That was no fun.

My least favorite belt is the one on the B5 Passat/Audi V6 that can't be done without removing practically the whole front half the car. I think it probably took me 10+ hours the first time I did it. VW calls the front end removal the "service position", which would also be a good way of describing the way you should brace yourself before the dealer sticks you with the $1200 bill for the job.

DILYSI Dave wrote: It's a $40 part that lasts for 120,000 miles and takes a couple of hours to change. Not sure how that becomes a deal breaker.

This. If anything I prefer belts to chains.

Taiden wrote: Not buying cars with timing belts? Isn't that akin to only dating virgins for fear of getting AIDs?

IV drug using, blood transfused virgins are the hottest.

Ian F wrote: So yeah... I guess compared to all of that, the M20 was pretty simple - just make sure the TDC marks stay lined up.

Exactly.. 1800 DOHC Fiats are equally as easy. Drain the coolant down below the neck on top of the engine. Remove upper hoses (2) and then remove the timing belt cover.

Line up the marks to TDC, unbolt the tensioner and remove the belt. Install new belt and tensioner.. tighten and tension, and then rotate the engine by hand a few times to check for interference.

reinstall cover, attach hoses, fill and burp coolant and you are ready to go.

the 2000DOHC engines need their crank pulley removed due to a lower belt cover that bolts onto the engine behind the pulley.. adds about 5 minutes of work to the job