So how do you learn how to drive manual "good"?

So as some of you know, I bought a new car with a manual! A little turbocharged Fiat.

It drives a bit different than my automatic p71 :P I've only driven manual about 2x and never been past 3rd gear. I've got first gear down pat. But I'm a bit confused on some things

-Stop signs. So you need to drop into neutral to do a complete stop right? I can though be in first gear and do a sorta half stop / half roll through, correct?

-I'm still a bit confused as to do with the gas pedal when going from 1st to 2nd to 3rd. Like I'll completely release off the gas pedal and get myself into the next gear and by that time I'm going probably too slow for that gear. hahah. Right now I'm a bit slow in changing gears so by the time I go from 1st to 2nd, I've slowed down enough to where I probably should be in 1st.

-Just advanced techniques too, like I'm probably shifting at all the wrong times...

Throttle to the floor, sidestep the clutch, shift at redline.

Its a Fiat. Its Italian. Its meant to be driven in a passionate maner.

In modern cars you have plenty of time to shift. Just take your time and concentrate. You'll have it down in no time.

You're in first gear, get the RPM up before you begin your shift, release the gas, pull into second, slowly release the clutch and apply the gas just like you did into first (releasing a little quicker, really). That's not exactly how I do it, but its the easy way to get down before you find out how comfortable you are. Same for third gear etc.

At a stop sign you can roll and stay in first gear, but that's not legal, is it? No need to drop into neutral. Just shift to first and leave your foot on the clutch.

I don't know what more to tell you unless you ask a more specific question, but many days, I hop out of my P71 and then take the manual focus for a ride, so it will be somewhat similar to the Fiat.

Streetwiseguy wrote: Throttle to the floor, sidestep the clutch, shift at redline. Its a Fiat. Its Italian. Its meant to be driven in a passionate maner.

I like your suggestion more than mine.

Haha. I'll pick it up, friend said I was a quick learner.

Here's the real question, could i keep the p71? It's a LX Sport and I get offered $6-k-7k for it often. I don't have a garage and only really one parking space, so I think yea I'll sell it. But damn will I miss it.

I sold my old P71 when she had a bad heater core and regretted it. Bought another just last year. I'd say sell, though. Sounds like some good cash to put towards the Fiat.

So is it a P71 (Poilice) or a P74 (LX Sport)?

N Sperlo wrote: At a stop sign you can roll and stay in first gear, but that's not legal, is it? No need to drop into neutral. Just shift to first and leave your foot on the clutch.

Eeeek! No! His transmission will spontaneously combust if he does this! Your foot should not be on the clutch unless you are actually starting out or changing gears. At a stop, shift to neutral and take your foot off the clutch.

Okay, maybe no big deal, but that's the way I drove mine, and I got 170k miles out of the original clutch, and it was still fine when I sold the car.

Damn, is that what happend?

It's all about what you're comfortable with once you get used to things.

N Sperlo wrote: I sold my old P71 when she had a bad heater core and regretted it. Bought another just last year. I'd say sell, though. Sounds like some good cash to put towards the Fiat. So is it a P71 (Poilice) or a P74 (LX Sport)?

Yea, I actually landed at about $3k under what I had saved for the car (paid cash). So I've got some money to put into the Fiat. It is actually a P74, I'm thinking of selling it because it still has the air suspension and don't really want to pay for that when it goes out.

Here's a gallery of it if you want to browse. It's the third card that GRM talked me into buying. I really love it, but imma let someone else enjoy it.

http://imgur.com/a/6KPXo

IMO, the only time a clutch should ever slip or wear is when taking off. Otherwise, by lifting off the gas in conjunction with depressing the clutch and shifting quickly, you should be able to get into the next gear, release the clutch, and feel no discernible engagement/mismatch in rpm between the motor and transmission if you have timed it right.

Modern cars have made this tougher, but it should all be one fluid motion.

This berkeleying work computer won't open imgur properly even through a proxy. I'll check it out later, but what I'd suggest doing is holding out for a damn good price.

Yea, I have the luxury of not needing to sell it now. I also have a sick enjoyment out of cleaning it. So don't mine continually washing it / dressing the tires.

I just think I need to get down shifting better. As it takes me a good 2-3 seconds to do so, while i see my friends shift at the blink of an eye. Comes with practice, I guess.

Here's some pics. I'm going to miss the hell out of the interior, that wood trim with "Crown Victoria" written in gold is pure class -

Stop signs - if I see I'm going to be stopped for a while, I'll drop into neutral; if I'm just going to be there a couple of seconds I leave it in first and have the clutch in.

Shift points - puttering around town I tend to shift somewhere between 3k and 4k rpm, plenty of time to execute a shift without being too slow for the next gear up.

This is something that helped my technique, and maybe something you could try: try to get your car rolling from a dead stop using only your left foot, and see if you can get up into 2nd or 3rd without adding throttle. Once you get more familiar with how your clutch feels it'll be easier to execute a smooth shift quickly.

To add to what 1988RedT2 said, an old mechanic, WWII vet, that owned a LBC shop was riding with me trying to figure out what was going on with my Spitfire. I come to a red light so as I stop I keep the clutch in and put the car in 1st gear to wait for the light to change. He tells me that doing that puts a lot of extra wear on the throw out bearing and the rest of the clutch parts and that if you are stopping for any length of time to put the car in neutral and get off the clutch. I have been following his advice for the last 20 plus years and my current DD has 225K miles on the original clutch. Of course YMMV.

You'll get used to it and figure out the shortcuts. No need for neutral at stop lights or signs but you may want to pop it into neutral and let out the clutch at long lights just to ease you leg. When you get better you'll figure out skipping gears. Accelerate with 1, 2 and/or 3 (as required) to cruise speed then skip to cruise gear for the speed (5th?). With the RX8, can use only 1 & 2 to get to 45-50 mph then skip to 5 for cruise. No need to get in a hurry changing gears, unless you want to just for fun.

You say by the time you shift to the next gear your probably going too slow for that gear, do you shift before 3k? That's usually the mark unless its a truck, diesel, or you have enough practice. Just keep driving that's the only way to learn, not highway but stop and go city type. I promise by this time next week you will be a pro

chiodos wrote: You say by the time you shift to the next gear your probably going too slow for that gear, do you shift before 3k? That's usually the mark unless its a truck, diesel, or you have enough practice. Just keep driving that's the only way to learn, not highway but stop and go city type. I promise by this time next week you will be a pro

Yea, I think I'm shifting way too early. On the VW Golf I learned on, it was a bit easier to track RPMs. The Fiat has a weird ass central gage with everything on it in a circle. Haven't really gotten accustomed to it, it is nicely laid out and well designed but completely foreign at this point.

Yep. You'll get used to it and get quicker. After that, you can start tweaking the way you shift to your liking or comfort. GRM is full of all kinds of different shifters.

Holding the clutch in at lights wears your crank thrust bearings because the pressure plate springs are trying to shove the crank forward.

This also wears your throwout bearing. If you have an old LBC with a graphite throwout bearing, this is important.

Just put it in neutral.

Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: To add to what 1988RedT2 said, an old mechanic, WWII vet, that owned a LBC shop was riding with me trying to figure out what was going on with my Spitfire. I come to a red light so as I stop I keep the clutch in and put the car in 1st gear to wait for the light to change. He tells me that doing that puts a lot of extra wear on the throw out bearing and the rest of the clutch parts and that if you are stopping for any length of time to put the car in neutral and get off the clutch. I have been following his advice for the last 20 plus years and my current DD has 225K miles on the original clutch. Of course YMMV.

Was taught that to at a young age. Also been told that on some LBCs, the throw out bearing is Graphite and won't take the pressure of holding the clutch in for excess time.

There are mixed arguments on this, but generally the advice is that you should have the clutch depressed as little as possible to avoid premature throwout bearing wear. Like, don't be afraid to use it, but if you're sitting still at a stop light, pull it out of gear and take your foot off the clutch instead of holding it in the whole time.

EDIT: I was beaten to the punch

szeis4cookie wrote: This is something that helped my technique, and maybe something you could try: try to get your car rolling from a dead stop using only your left foot, and see if you can get up into 2nd or 3rd without adding throttle. Once you get more familiar with how your clutch feels it'll be easier to execute a smooth shift quickly.

My dad had me doing that when he taught me to drive. He also had me look away and he put it in a gear and I had to start from a stop in whatever gear he put it in. 3rd takes some clutch slipping and higher revs but can be done. 4th can be done to but really a pain. Not something you want to do regularly.

I like to pre-load the shifter a bit while accelerating then when you let off the gas it pops out of gear while you're pushing in the clutch. Careful though, it takes a practiced hand to know how much pressure is ideal.

Also watch a bunch of Walter Rohrl videos. :)

Well, hell. At a stop light, pop her into neutral, pull the e-brake and take a quick nap.

I drive my wife nuts by pulling the brake and wiggling my stick around at stop lights.

But for cereal, no one stops at stop signs around here anyway.

The_Jed wrote: I like to pre-load the shifter a bit while accelerating then when you let off the gas it pops out of gear while you're pushing in the clutch. Careful though, it takes a practiced hand to know how much pressure is ideal.

Isn't that really bad for your synchros?