So long SCCA Stock; hello Street

Looks like the Street category proposal has been approved.

http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51652

I think this will be a good thing. I'm looking forward to how it all shakes out.

It's about time! This should increase new member participation dramatically. I love that they didn't allow camber changes.

I dig it.

No camber allowances is going to be hard on tires, but I'm glad to see "stock" start looking more like a showroom car.

In reply to Toyman01:

200TW 7/32nds tread tires not a banned list man! The amount of grip it's going to take to mess those up just isn't going to happen on most cars/courses.

In reply to Javelin: You should get at least a season on the 200TW tires. I'm glad to see the purple crack banned from the class.

Teh New Rules: and have a wheel diameter allowance of plus or minus one inch.

You hear that, SCCA RallyCross Rules Makin' Guys? Even the asphalt weenies are allowed to change wheel diameter in Stock. Let's make it happen for us, too!

Knurled wrote:

Teh New Rules: and have a wheel diameter allowance of plus or minus one inch.

You hear that, SCCA RallyCross Rules Makin' Guys? Even the asphalt weenies are allowed to change wheel diameter in Stock. Let's make it happen for us, too!

what are these "rallycross rules" you speak of?

The camber bolts part is kind of odd, though, since many cars come with them stock....

irish44j wrote: what are these "rallycross rules" you speak of?

See, that's another reason to go to Nationals. You get to raise issues and hear other people's sides of the story at the round table meeting.

It's kind of a sore spot for me because I think the rule is dumb for many reasons... but that's a discussion for another thread entirely.

I ran RTA this year and got 60 runs out of a set of rivals on a DS WRX. cars that are hard on Hoosiers are still going to be hard on street tires

Wow, I feel like we've been asking for this for like 27 years.

I think this is great. It never made much sense to me that they were so strict on basic car mods, yet allowed race tires on stock cars. I think that drives away a lot of the more casual would be autocrossers who don't want to commit to race tires. One of the appeals of autocross to me is that you get to safely push your car to the limit and beyond in a controlled environment. You can learn some good lessons for the street, and bolting on race tires defeats that purpose.

I just realized that my Miata is now ready to compete as it sits. I've left it stock with the intention of competing in the stock class, but never pulled the trigger on a set of race tires. It seems stupid to leave a car stock on the street when I would really prefer to mod it, only to swap on race tires and drastically alter it for 4 minutes or less of driving every couple weekends. This will get me back out to an autocross.

I can totally understand why they went this route - makes a lot of sense for entry-level participants. I'm not thrilled though. I used to run really competitively in C-stock with an RX-8. Only way I could be so competitive is because I could buy take-off Hoosier A6's from road race guys who would run qualis with them and toss them. Could get a set of tires with a couple laps on them for $50-100 bucks and they'd last a season. It'll be much harder/impossible to find those kinds of deals on competitive "street" tires.

Oh well, time to move on to more road racing I guess.

This rule change might work because it's a bit cheaper but it won't eliminate drivers with more skill, money and more dedication from beating those with less. Hate me if you want, but all the casual autocrossers who think they have a better chance with the new ruleset are thinking like the politicians who recently wanted to defund a certain program.

I'm also concerned about Hoosier's welfare. Will they be able to survive and/or be able to produce competitive tires that meet the new standards?

I still don't care for the idea. If newbies have been clamoring for street tires in stock, then regions have always had the power to create local classes to accommodate them. No need to take away a national class to cater to those who don't go to national events.

Guess it doesn't matter. Next year I'm back to ESP, I hope.

Come for my Hoosiers there, and we'll have a problem.

Knurled wrote:

irish44j wrote: what are these "rallycross rules" you speak of?

See, that's another reason to go to Nationals. You get to raise issues and hear other people's sides of the story at the round table meeting. It's kind of a sore spot for me because I think the rule is dumb for many reasons... but that's a discussion for another thread entirely.

I have little tolerance for rules, honestly. That's why I went directly to MR. I like doing the builds as much as (or more than) actually winning, and want to do the car how I want to regardless of rules.....MR is essentially no rules, which works for me :)

Same reason I was the only person in the country campaigning a Nissan Maxima in E Prepared autocross, lol.

Also why I drive someone else's Chump/Lemons car. I would go insane trying to deal with all the little rules doing my own build.

btw, not disagreeing with you on the wheel size rule. It is dumb. I'm assuming you want to go larger so you can run a performance winter like a Wintersport M3, which are only made in 15"+ (or 16"+) sizes?

In reply to oldsaw:

Wait a minute here... who says this is just for newbies? I think this does more to balance the field by taking one big variable out of the equation. Of course those with more skill should beat those with less. We aren't talking about skill, we are talking about tires. Are you implying that only those who lack skill would want to drive on street tires? I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of experienced racers that would like to not have to buy, store, and transport race tires and still be able to compete. If bolting on race tires that help you stay ahead of better drivers on street tires in otherwise equal cars makes you feel special, then I feel sad for you. Besides, there will still be a stock car- race tire class. If people really want that, then there should be nothing for you to worry about. I hope you don't take it too hard when some casual autocrosser hands you your ass and bursts your bubble.

I predict teams of helpers with water bottles at the ready to cool the tires after the second run of every car. I all ready have a deal on getting the tires flipped after four events. That is after rotating front to back after each event. The camber police are going to be very busy.

In reply to Boost_Crazy:

Cool your jets, rocketman.

I said NOTHING about "newbies".

Changing the tire rules might benefit some drivers - for a while. All I'm saying is that the biggest benefit is the initial purchase price of tires and that it won't take long to achieve stasis. The winners' names may(?) change but those with more desire and resources will still prevail.

As of 2015, the Street-R class disappears for all, except for high HP cars; that's basically next year.

You know nothing of my experience and what it takes to burst my bubble.

In reply to oldsaw:

It's not just the purchase price. It's also the storage and transport. You are right, those with more desire and resources that were willing to deal with those issues, and have mixed in a great deal of skill, have done well. I'm betting that there are plenty of others with similar skill that want to be competitive, but are not that commited. That is what this class is about. It takes a good deal of commitment to buy a set of tires that you will only put a few miles on, maybe a tire trailer, store it all, and haul it to events. That is not appealing to a large group of people who would prefer to "run what you brung," which seems more in line with stock class cars. I used to do a lot of autocrossing, but my cars never really fit in. I was fast, but I couldn't directly compete. Part of the reason why I bought my Miata was because I wanted to be able to compete with a bunch of like cars. Three kids later, and there is no way I can commit to what it takes to be competitive right now. This new class is perfect. I can drive to an event, run on a level playing field, and drive home. Will there be better prepared people figuring out every trick to get the most out of their street tires? Of course there will be. And they will still have an advantage (which they earned.) But at least I'll have the opportunity to compete, and their advantage will be much smaller then race vs. street tires.

Meh, people will buy street tires instead of race tires and the way the SCCA rules are setup and in a few years it will still turn into to "X car is best at this class" and guys will run shaved street tires instead of the purple crack.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Javelin: You should get at least a season on the 200TW tires. I'm glad to see the purple crack banned from the class.

yeah the Ho-Ho's won't last a full season but, I get a season (20 - 25 a-x's) on 140TW Toyo R1R's .... there is still measurable tread depth (albeit not much) on a set that I put on with 5 a-x's left in last yrs. season ...

I really couldn't care less what they do to/with stock/street ... I just wish they'd leave my STS tires alone

oh well... I can still use them in '14 ...maybe something will show up that's as good by 2015