jstein77 wrote:Vigo wrote: Somehow i doubt you crowd would be complaining if we were talking about an MR2 with the SAME MOTOR swapped in. Oil starvation is preventable, the end.Well, Per cleaned out the motor as well as he could and added an oil accumulator, but it still blew up.
I think Vigo is volunteering to show everyone how it should be done 
I already did that. I took a Dodge Dynasty with a 3.0, put a 5spd in it, went a half-second+ quicker on the dragstrip with a slipping clutch than the grm camry, only put oil in it when the pressure gauge dropped around turns (i never 'changed' the oil, and this oil-adding procedure was used for at least 20-30k miles previous by the PO, a relative of mine), and sold it running/driving when i started building ANOTHER dynasty (with a bigger motor). I've been modding out FWD family sedans for the vast majority of my entire adult life. The only motors i've ever broken were with BOOST.
If a motor with an accusump dies from oil starvation, clearly there was some issue with the setup. That doesnt bother me. I might run into the same issue. But i am not perfect, neither is anyone at GRM, and i dont feel entitled to proclaim that "this motor is garbage/unfixable" just because I couldnt figure it out on the first or even second try. I WOULD say "its certainly not as forgiving as a Maxima or Dynasty 3.0" but i'll never believe it's unworkable. It just needed something that it didnt get, and if someone were to keep trying, they would eventually figure it out. I wont be the one to do it unless someone drops the car off in my yard and pays my ASE master-certified ass $85/hr to do so.
Wait. Did an issue of The Magazine just come out and the replacement motor is now dead as well?
It might be an interesting tech project; upgrade the oiling system on these things so they can live on the track. Home-did crank scrapper, windage tray, maybe external oil return lines from the heads to the sump. Pump work perhaps? Baffles and a swinging pickup even?
GameboyRMH wrote: I guess Lotus has modified the oiling systems on these engines (as usual) when they use them in the Evora and S3 Elise/Exige.
They use the V6?
Vigo wrote: Somehow i doubt you crowd would be complaining if we were talking about an MR2 with the SAME MOTOR swapped in. Oil starvation is preventable, the end.
Of course it's preventable.
But at what point do you decide to choose a product that does not require some special re-work to make it survive? And would that re-work be legal where ever you are racing it?
alfadriver wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: I guess Lotus has modified the oiling systems on these engines (as usual) when they use them in the Evora and S3 Elise/Exige.They use the V6?
its a toyota V6 in the evora.
But at what point do you decide to choose a product that does not require some special re-work to make it survive? And would that re-work be legal where ever you are racing it?
I think if we acknowledge that the work it would take to fix it is not worth it, we are also simultaneously throwing the 'dont give up and buy a sporty car, work with what you have' concept as it is in the garbage. I dont really have a horse in this race so i see that as a reasonable conclusion to come to, but until someone fixes it then we dont really know how hard it is to fix. Is it possible that simply having twice as much capacity in the oil accumulator would lessen the problem to nil? We don't know. But if it IS that simple, all someone has to do is buy the right thing the first time, and then everything is fine.
I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest.
These motors don't have these issues in MR2s when they're swapped in, pulling more Gs. There's been a couple of those motors put into Celicas, 5th gens in particular, then used on the track and autocross situations, and they didn't blow up.
I wish i had more time/space at the moment. I've always actually liked these motors, and would love to build a car around one. I'd put one in the Escort in a heartbeat if it were legal for my class.
GameboyRMH wrote: I guess Lotus has modified the oiling systems on these engines (as usual) when they use them in the Evora and S3 Elise/Exige.
Lotus never used these engines. They use the 2gr in the Evora, and the 2zz in the Elise/Exige.
The 1mz/3mz family of motors was never used by Lotus.
Honestly, Jerry, we figured we were damned either way. If we used an automatic, people would have bitched that we didn't hold out for a stick. And if we used a stick, people would have bitched that we didn't use an autobox.
Swank Force One wrote: I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest.
I do - it's that the engines had been treated pretty poorly in their lives (like 20,000 oil change intervals) because grandmas generally don't care about their appliance vehicles. Sludge and crap in the oil pickup, like that pictured in the article, are probably pretty common.
jstein77 wrote:Swank Force One wrote: I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest.I do - it's that the engines had been treated pretty poorly in their lives (like 20,000 oil change intervals) because grandmas generally don't care about their appliance vehicles. Sludge and crap in the oil pickup, like that pictured in the article, are probably pretty common.
They rebuilt it, though... then it blew again. I'm inclined to believe that it blew the first time due to neglect, then i suppose the second time due to a botched rebuild job?
Or at least i thought they rebuilt it?
I'm tired. Clearly the answer is F2T.
Swank Force One wrote: I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest. These motors don't have these issues in MR2s when they're swapped in, pulling more Gs. There's been a couple of those motors put into Celicas, 5th gens in particular, then used on the track and autocross situations, and they didn't blow up. I wish i had more time/space at the moment. I've always actually liked these motors, and would love to build a car around one. I'd put one in the Escort in a heartbeat if it were legal for my class.
I have a 1MZFE in an MR2. I can tell you that these blow up "a lot" on track and agree with Vigo -- there's something up with them. One person started his swap with a brand new OEM long block and it blew up on track within 20k miles. It's generally accepted in the MR2 world that an accumulator is a must for track duty.
OTOH, several of guys in the MR2 world have figured it out and V6 MR2s are frontrunners in Chump and have been on the podium.
In general, the recipe is an accumulator, cooler and homebrew oil pan / windage tray. If there are extra tricks, nobody's talking.
Swank Force One wrote:jstein77 wrote:They rebuilt it, though... then it blew again. I'm inclined to believe that it blew the first time due to neglect, then i suppose the second time due to a botched rebuild job? Or at least i thought they rebuilt it? I'm tired. Clearly the answer is F2T.Swank Force One wrote: I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest.I do - it's that the engines had been treated pretty poorly in their lives (like 20,000 oil change intervals) because grandmas generally don't care about their appliance vehicles. Sludge and crap in the oil pickup, like that pictured in the article, are probably pretty common.
They didn't rebuild it; the dealer they bought it from put in a junkyard motor after Per blew the first engine on a test drive. All the first engine took to blow was one straight-line acceleration run to 6000 rpm, 500 short of the redline. That seems unbelievable, but it happened.
Run what ya brung.
Camera location sucks, sorry.
Passing two 944 in a single lap. http://youtu.be/8jhcWTchp2A
Best lap of the weekend 00:02:38.167 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nXJElYKQ78&feature=youtu.be
Have done 5 days at VIR for a total of twenty 30 minute runs and my 3.5L with auto is still working fine.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: Fair points many of you have. I was just pointing out that Camry’s weren’t natural race cars with the comments on the touring cars. Also, as I’ve said many times. You don’t need to autocross or do track days to be an enthusiast and enjoy a car. There was a guy with a Camry on here doing a build thread. He was the classic case of I've got it and want to improve it while doing maintenance. I think it was an auto, but I recall he was doing springs, shocks, end links things like that. I actually really liked that thread.
that was me.
served its purpose while it needed to.
still being driven by a 16 year old hispanic girl a few towns over. her dad giggled when i told him how the chassis was set up. he loved the way it drove. she'll probably never know it wasnt stock.
michael
Vigo wrote: 4th gen Maxima as a project car, which is EXTREMELY SIMILAR in almost all family car respects to a late 90s 3.0/5spd Camry.
except for the part about excellent engine/transmission vs. mediocre engine/transmission.
Otherwise, totally agree with your post.
Signed, One of those who suggested a Maxima, with some bias...
Swank Force One wrote: I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest. These motors don't have these issues in MR2s when they're swapped in, pulling more Gs. There's been a couple of those motors put into Celicas, 5th gens in particular, then used on the track and autocross situations, and they didn't blow up.
not that I am saying it's common or anything (I really have no idea), but it just so happens that an MR2 with said V6 swapped in.....blew it up at the first rallycross of the season.......on his third run of the season.
In reply to irish44j:
Gotta disagree on the trans part. The v6 5spd trans in the Camry is quite possibly the strongest fwd trans ever made.
fair enough - like I said, I don't know much about them, but I do know the engine is nowhere near the VQ30 in terms of reliability/strength.
Probably so. 
anything can be fixed with proper amounts of money and/or stupidity though.
Ergo, the 1000whp MZ powered Camry in Toronto.
nvm someone already said what i said here
In reply to jstein77:
Never make a Camry into a race car? Hardly.. GRM just hasn't figured out the secret to keep it going yet...
I have a 1MZFE in an MR2. I can tell you that these blow up "a lot" on track and agree with Vigo -- there's something up with them. One person started his swap with a brand new OEM long block and it blew up on track within 20k miles. It's generally accepted in the MR2 world that an accumulator is a must for track duty. OTOH, several of guys in the MR2 world have figured it out and V6 MR2s are frontrunners in Chump and have been on the podium. In general, the recipe is an accumulator, cooler and homebrew oil pan / windage tray. If there are extra tricks, nobody's talking.
Good info. It seems evidence of their issues under lateral g-loads is starting to pile up..
Never make a Camry into a race car? Hardly.. GRM just hasn't figured out the secret to keep it going yet..
Exactly! There have got to be people out there making them live. Whatever they're doing can be replicated and then GRM Camry can go back to being a normal project that doesnt blow up when you take turns.
ALSO : Fr3AkAzOiD, you have made a truly laudable entrance to this forum! Good dang job!
Fr3AkAzOiD wrote: Run what ya brung.
You, sir, are AWESOME!
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