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bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
6/8/11 1:53 p.m.

In reply to SilverFleet:

I had a 71 Formula 400 for many years, and I bought a '78 T/A new with the 400. I love those cars. Before I bought my Mustang I was looking for a 70-71 T/A, but couldn't find one for the price I wanted to pay. There was a guy with a really nice one, but hell, he wanted $12k for it!!! (1994). Kind of screwed up on that one. I don't know/remember all that much about the 403's, but I seem to remember them being not very well liked, but don't recall why.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet HalfDork
6/8/11 3:20 p.m.

The early cars command some serious cash now. I know two local guys with '70's (one's Lucerne Blue and white, and the other is white and Lucerne Blue) and they bought their cars as basket cases and paid a lot of money.

From 1976ish-on, Olds small block 260-403ci engines had windowed main webbing, which means the main webs in the block which are usually there for strength were not there. GM claimed it was for weight reduction and emissions purposes. Instead of trimming the weight of those 100lb each bumpers hanging off the front and rear, the weakened one of the most essential parts of the block. Thanks GM!

Even with main girdles, most builders still recommend against using power adders on the windowed main engines. For a street engine, it's not going to blow up, but I've seen some pretty terrible catastrophic failures when high power and power adders are involved. The girdles allow for some serious NA builds, but I just don't trust them personally.

The one in my car was a turd. They like to spin rod bearings (which mine did) and the block and head surfaces aren't the best. Mine leaked oil out of the space between the head and the block, even after changing the head gaskets. I could have gotten the head and block mating surfaces milled, but I decided to do that to a 400 I had instead.

The Diesel block has solid and reinforced main webbing.

curtis73
curtis73 Dork
6/8/11 5:51 p.m.

The windowed webs aren't that bad. Mondello used to make 450 hp crate engines based on the windowed 403 with no girdle. Joe used to go to 600 hp on some race engines without girdles.

OldsTurboDiesel
OldsTurboDiesel
6/10/11 10:04 a.m.

In reply to rebelgtp:

if you are seriously considering using the diesel engine in the Cutlass, the following might help you decide;

Good Olds diesel information links; http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=350Diesel&nav=start&prettyurl=%2F350Diesel%2Fstart

http://www.gm-diesel.com/vbull/non-turbo-charged-diesels/20692-5-7-4-3-olds-diesel-faq.html

Wikipedia has some good information and history on the Olds Diesel V6’s and V8’s; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_V6_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine (have to scroll half way down page to get to the LF9 diesel section).

Next two links are of my Oldsmobile diesel powered cars (the first one I scrapped the body, kept the drive train).

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3076965/1982-buick-estate

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2564838/1985-buick-park-avenue

The Olds Diesels have gotten a lot of bad press and rightly so. Most of the problems that these engines had can be overcome (and not by converting them to gasoline). The factory took care of a number of them by 1982 with the “DX” block. Roller cam and roller lifters eliminated the valves hammering into the valve pockets and lobes on the cam going flat. Aftermarket (ARP) head bolts/studs, main bolts/studs and rod bolts helped with other weak areas. Good performance and fuel economy can be had from these old ostracized diesel engines with the right attention.

Vigo
Vigo Dork
6/10/11 11:26 a.m.

Great post and thanks for the info.

I for one had no idea the FWD diesels existed.

Found a new body for the v8 yet?

rebelgtp
rebelgtp SuperDork
6/10/11 11:32 a.m.

Yes thank you for the excellent post. I was very interested to see the turbo setup on the 350. I seem to recall seeing a video on youtube from a guy that built a turbo diesel 350 and had it in a wagon is that you?

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
6/10/11 11:35 a.m.

Two Questions:

  1. And at what cost? And how is it better than starting with a better engine?
  2. Do you have turbo's for canoes?
tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
6/10/11 11:41 a.m.
bravenrace wrote: 2. Do you have turbo's for canoes?

Did someone step on your lawn today? Sounded legit to me.

rebelgtp
rebelgtp SuperDork
6/10/11 11:47 a.m.

Yeah I don't think this is a boat salesman just a guy that knows quite a bit about these motors and had quite a few links to share.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
6/10/11 12:08 p.m.

My only thinking was that he has no history here and just happens to pop up when we are discussing this. I'm not saying his information isn't good, just the timing of his arrival. No big deal. And Tuna, I drive on my front lawn on a regular basis. Not to say I'm in a good mood today, just that, well, you know.
As far as turboing or otherwise modding an Olds diesel, well you'll find that there are fanatics about anything and everything, and whether it makes sense or not may depend on your outlook.
A good analogy: I have a TVR with a 2.5l Triumph TR-6 engine. It's a smooth running, fairly torquey low RPM engine. But it has some inherent design flaws/elements that make it difficult and expensive to modify for performance much past 150-160hp and keep it reliable and streetable. My buddy, who also has a TVR with this engine, bored, stroked, ported, polished, balanced, etc.. his to 3 liters and 300 reliable HP. But he has a $7k billet crank with a journal added to the block, he has a custom made billet aluminum head with Chevy V-8 valves and relocated ports, high compression and very highly modified dual stromberg carbs. All of this looks totally stock in his car. He has over $20k into this engine, and it is definitely cool.
Me, on the other hand, am going to put a 300hp+ Ford 5.0 in mine for less than $2500 total. Different strokes for different folks. I'd say no pun intended, but I hate that term.

OldsTurboDiesel
OldsTurboDiesel New Reader
6/10/11 11:08 p.m.

In reply to Vigo:

Glad to help with the information.

I did not know the FWD V6 diesels existed either until I stumbled across the Park Ave in 99’.

The V8 diesel will end up in my 84’ S10 2wd long bed pickup. It is roughly project #5 at the moment.

OldsTurboDiesel
OldsTurboDiesel New Reader
6/10/11 11:11 p.m.

In reply to rebelgtp:

No, the videos on youtube are not mine. I turbocharged my V8 diesel in 2000, eight years before DAK2011 posted his videos 1-4 of his “gm 5.7 diesel 350 turbo vid.” Unfortunately I didn’t consider trying to get videos of these projects back when they were first completed. I feel fortunate to have taken the few 35mm pictures that I did. Now I try to document everything digitally that seems important (when I remember).

OldsTurboDiesel
OldsTurboDiesel New Reader
6/10/11 11:13 p.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

Two Answers:

  1. 11 years ago pricing, roughly $450.00. There is always a “better” engine to be had – I could have utilized a 5.9L Cummins or a 6.5L GM like everyone else, but that’s not me so I selected something different.
  2. Twin or Compound? There are always options.
OldsTurboDiesel
OldsTurboDiesel New Reader
6/10/11 11:15 p.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

You are correct that I have no history here. For the record, I am not here to step on anyone’s toes. The only reason I ended up here is I like to do searches from time to time for any new “Oldsmobile Diesel” information or projects that “pop up” on the internet. I like to help out anyone that I might find asking questions about these widely misunderstood diesels. I will try to answer any questions about these engines from what I have learned from others and my own experiences with them. I have been around and wrenching on the V8 Olds Diesels since around 79’ (started out at a GM dealership) and the V6 Olds Diesels since around 99’. I personally have a very limited budget for projects so I ”recycle” quite a lot of parts and materials where I can. The HX35 Holset turbo on the V8 diesel for example is used off Ebay. The exhaust system on the same engine is all used tubing off wrecked vehicles cut and welded together. The V6 Diesel is getting a lot more newer parts than the V8 but it is also taking longer to collect those parts at an affordable price and build. My dad has a 68’ Triumph GT6+ all stock (I know, it’s a good decade older than yours), very fun cars to drive. Factory head studs and nuts weren’t so good and the transmissions were weak but they are great cars! Your TVR would scream with a 5.0 in it!

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