So..how bad is a Merc W123 wagon?

I saw a Merc W123 wagon on Bring a Trailer a while back, and i've been mildly obsessed ever since. I'm changing jobs next week which will reduce my commute significantly, and increase my paycheck. As a result I've been cruising CL for Merc Wagons. And daydreaming.

So, who has lived with a W123 diesel? How are they? Driving experience? repair cost? DIY repairability for someone not familiar with Diesels?

CL link as an example. Nice car, but also a slush box and a little more than I'd want to spend.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3096296853.html

I haven't owned one (yet), but that era of Benz has a reputation of being the best built cars the company ever produced. "Million mile machine" is the common mantra.

There is a huge online following, so support should be easy. Also, these diesel wagons are the holy grail for the greasecar crowd.

There are turbos and non-turbos. Turbos are pretty slow. Non-turbos are impossibly slow.

Once you get up to highway speeds (time it with a calendar, not a watch) they will cruise all day long at impossibly high MPG for such a good-riding car.

Like all W123 cars, they will last forever. The big gotcha is the vacuum system, with a zillion tubes, hoses and elbows, all waiting to fail. Any one failure takes down the whole system, and you'll lift the hood to stop the engine.

The big downside to the wagon over sedan or coupe is the self-leveling rear suspension. When it works, it works like a dream. When it doesn't, open your wallet wide.

Also I don't think its possible to find one that is not an automatic

I've never owned one but love their presence on the road. I've checked out a couple in the junkyard and they are built like bank vaults. No wonder they're so slow, the steel in the doors must be 18 gauge. Even with the bottoms all rusted away they still close solidly and make a great "thunk."

I've been kicking around the idea of trading my 124 for a 123. The 123's are supposed to be even more reliable. But yeah, watch out for the SLS rear suspension and get a turbo'd car.

EvanR wrote: There are turbos and non-turbos. Turbos are pretty slow. Non-turbos are impossibly slow.

Almost dangerously so. Make sure you get a turbo if you want to top 70 mph without wanting to tear your eyes out.

Once you get up to highway speeds (time it with a calendar, not a watch) they will cruise all day long at impossibly high MPG for such a good-riding car.

Meaning: Mid-20s.

Like all W123 cars, they will last forever. The big gotcha is the vacuum system, with a zillion tubes, hoses and elbows, all waiting to fail. Any one failure takes down the whole system, and you'll lift the hood to stop the engine.

Which will not make your girlfriend happy if you lend her the car for a day. Ask me how I know.

The big downside to the wagon over sedan or coupe is the self-leveling rear suspension. When it works, it works like a dream. When it doesn't, open your wallet wide.

And yeah, I don't think you'll find a stickshift on this side of the pond unless it's either a.) in a 240D sedan, or b.) has been converted. They're all four-speed sticks (5-speeds were Europe only), and they're not any faster than the automatics. At least not noticeably so.

Non-turbos will get to 60 one day. Turbos are just slightly faster. They are built like tanks and have wonderfully awesome interiors other then the seats. Not hard to work on. The self leveling suspension is easy to convert away from and there is a kit to do it. http://slsconversion.com/

You can convert to manual with a transmission out of 240D (which is 4 cylinder diesel versus the 5 cylinder) or get a Euro transmission. On the turbo cars, you can get 180hp without much problem but after that you run out of fuel and you will need to replace the elements in the injection pump and that isn't cheap. If I didn't have too many projects, I would be tempted to drop a OM606 into my wagon (which is going to be for sale soon).

Alan Cesar wrote: And yeah, I don't think you'll find a stickshift on this side of the pond unless it's either a.) in a 240D sedan, or b.) has been converted. They're all four-speed sticks (5-speeds were Europe only), and they're not any faster than the automatics. At least not noticeably so.

If I remember correctly, the 4-speed auto and the 4-speed stick have exactly the same ratios.

Oh, as far as repairs:

It's a robust machine, no doubt. Disc brakes all around with two-piston fixed calipers. Solid discs, if memory serves. The seals started leaking, so I got a caliper rebuild kit from RockAuto. Taking the caliper apart, I was surprised how good the condition of the thing was inside. Once I got it clean and apart, it looked robust enough to last much, much longer. Just the decades-old rubber had worn out. And yeah, you can find parts pretty cheap for most things except the vacuum-operated parts. Those door lock actuators ain't cheap, so most people just end up disabling the central locking.

Every alignment shop I called wouldn't touch it, citing special tools they didn't want to invest in. Front wheel bearings are easy to service, but the rears are not—another special tool. Other than those, I think it was all pretty standard stuff.

Oh, and the automatics have an adjustment knob underneath. Pop off the cover on the little guy where the vacuum feed enters the transmission, pull out and turn the little key and put it back together. Suddenly the thing has a shift kit and will chirp the tires slamming into second gear. The automatic is a four-speed, too.

Several German car mags actually suggested at the time that one didn't want to buy the 5 speed as you didn't get much of a benefit from it.

One of the big problems with W123s - especially the earlier ones - is that they rust like nobody's business. That changed over time though and the later ones are somewhat more rust resistant.

I was considering one to replace my Jetta TDI since they are a little nicer inside, but I haven't found many wagons+diesel

I found a couple on diesel wagons on CL Atlanta, and one gray market petrol 5 speed. Also there's a twin turbo diesel drift wagon that was posted June 9th.

Fast doesn't really worry me, I have a Mustang and a Mini Cooper. This would be something...different. cruise the 6 miles to work, then cruise me & my bike out to the after-work ride, maybe use it for the long drives - to the mountains or the beach.

Of course, I do have an Explorer that's in good shape already and is probably more useful in a real-world sense. Not sure if I could really justify the Benz, although it does get better mileage.

But they're just so dang cool.

W123s aren't cheap usually especially for the age and speed.

Honestly, based on the fuel mileage I've heard cited here and elsewhere (25mpg), I don't get these cars....unless you run bio-diesel or WVO. My 25 mpg better have a way better power to weight ratio (see 27mpg M3), OR get way better fuel mileage. Just my .02

The back seat felt like a '60s davenport.

We had a W123 sedan, gas powered though.

It is a nice car. Deceptively quick at passing for some reason. But 0-40 mph seems to take a long time. The auto always starts in 2nd (at least for the gas powered cars)

m4ff3w wrote: The auto always starts in 2nd (at least for the gas powered cars)

Same for diesel.

If you put the shifter into "S" then put it into "D" you can get 1st gear start. In "S" the automatic will start in 1st if you stomp the car, also in S the transmission locks out 4th gear which makes the transmission shift much more aggressively.

If you consider gas, find a 280te euro with the euro m110 engine. The euro m110 engine is very nice and for the time quite powerful. Anyone who tells you a euro m110 in good tune isn't fast hasn't driven one. Before I fixed the transmission vacuum modulator my transmission would hold 3rd gear to about 6000rpm and this engine makes some good sounds running high rpm. Now it is fixed I have a hard time getting the engine to rev past 5500rpm before shifting into 4th gear.

njansenv wrote: Honestly, based on the fuel mileage I've heard cited here and elsewhere (25mpg), I don't get these cars....unless you run bio-diesel or WVO. My 25 mpg better have a way better power to weight ratio (see 27mpg M3), OR get way better fuel mileage. Just my .02

Is the I-5 that much worse than the I-4? I had a '77 240D with the stickshift, and got a consistent 35mpg. City or highway, it didn't matter.

I've owned at least one for the past 6 years or so. Almost everything on them is fairly diy friendly. My current one is stick shift 240D with a turbo engine swapped in. 0 to 60 takes about 16 seconds. 79 is the bad year for rust, something about the steel supply that year. Great cars, built like a vault. I have over 350,000 miles on my current one.

In reply to bgkast:

My 79 is solid as a damn vault body wise.

I have a W124, very similar to the 123 where it counts. Here's my two cents.
Why have a MB diesel over a gas car? I'd rather commute in a $4000 MB diesel than a $4000 gas car. The $4000 gas crap can will be nearly worn out, and feel like it too.
I have a level of equipment that is not available on any car I'd want to drive in that price range, auto climate control, sun roof (metal panel for the win!), power seats, the best limited slip rear and I've ever owned, a structure that feels more solid than most cars 1/4 it's age (292K on mine).
My car get's about 30 or so MPG on average, but it's hard to calculate do to the duel-fuel capability.......
that brings me to the only reason I drive mine. I run WVO. I spend, maybe $200 a year on diesel instead of $65 a week.

Keep in mind that the Diesels in the W124 are different engines compared to the W123...

BoxheadTim wrote: Keep in mind that the Diesels in the W124 are different engines compared to the W123...

Yeah, they are different, but not terribly so. More power, torques and mpg, but not much really. I think (only going my the wisdom of the interwebs) the 123's are much more DIY friendly.
That's one aspect of 124 ownership I forgot to mention. The work I've had to do to the engine (oil pump/chain, head gasket/timing chain) has really kicked my butt. On mine though, I keep having to do work to it, like every weekend. As soon as I get one thing fixed, another pops up to take it's place. But, that's deferred maintenance by the previous owners.