Solder versus Crimp

dean1484 wrote: I smell a GRM article here

I eagerly hope such an article is written

I'm lazy. I crimp everything. Never had a problem.

Still like to see what tools and connectors y'all are using... thanks! :)

The thomas & Betts Crimper is about the best budget crimper for the plain jane sta-kon type terminals (ring, spade, butt, etc)

Hotlinked:

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

Keith wrote: We see a lot more bad soldered connections when troubleshooting, mostly due to vibration.

Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed. Is part of that from not leaving enough slack? I've never had a failure of a solder joint, but have had crimp connections fail. But I don't have a snazzy crimp tool. What breaks? The wire or the solder joing? I have seen where people go kinda nutty with the solder heating the connection so much is sucks solder down into the wire. I could see that making things kind of brittle. Still hard to imagine it breaking. Huh.

As noted earlier, they seem to break at the edge of the solder joint. We don't actually get to lay eyes on all the failures, as it's usually diagnosed over the phone. People decide they don't like crimps so they solder the joint, then they call us with an intermittent connection problem.

My snazzy crimp tool. Mine has the multiple jaws, but honestly I tend to just use the same ones all the time because I tend to use the same kind of connectors all the time. Available for $20 from SJ Discount Tools with a single set of jaws, apparently. Amazon has the full kit.

Here are the crimp connections I use. Built-in heat shrink sleeve, just nail 'em with a gun and they cover up nicely. I get them from Del City.

So you can see what I am doing.

DME with MS sitting on it. The tangs that I will be attaching to are to the left of the ms. I was actually seeing if I could mount the MS board in the DME housing. (yes it is doable but I have to change out the plug on the MS)

Another view of the gutted DME with the plug. It is between the stock afm and the replacement tube that will have the IAT sensor in it.

Keith wrote: My snazzy crimp tool. Mine has the multiple jaws, but honestly I tend to just use the same ones all the time because I tend to use the same kind of connectors all the time. Available for $20 from SJ Discount Tools with a single set of jaws, apparently. Amazon has the full kit.

That's pretty much the exact tool I have, but mine was American made, so it was twice the price, and didn't come with all the fancy extra dies or the case. But it works very well.

Kendall_Jones wrote: The thomas & Betts Crimper is about the best budget crimper for the plain jane sta-kon type terminals (ring, spade, butt, etc) Hotlinked:

Well, that's convenient. It even tells you which is the positive handle and which is the negative handle. Just don't ever let the two touch.

Is it wrong that I tin each end (with flux) and then solder them together, then heat shrink? It's always worked in a vibration mad R/C airplane.

Back in the day I once taught a Military school on both soldering and crimping, and in an automotive environment I would prefer crimping 90% of the time. The trick is to remember just what you are trying to accomplish with the crimper: you are trying to pressure weld the wire to the lug. Until you know just how much it takes to do that, you need a ratcheting crimper. Most people just don't squeeze hard enough and/or they use cheap lugs.

Any lug that's chromed should be thrown away, nothing's going to make a good connection to it. Any lug that has plastic on it you can't flex should be tossed as well. Like Keith I prefer and recommend un-insulated lugs covered with heat shrink, and if possible silver plated ones. Silver oxide conducts as well as silver, so even oxidized years later they will still work better.

My biggest issue with solder?: Too much flux or plumber's solder. Flux is supposed to clean the joint, and to do that it's usually acidic. Plumbing solder actually brags about its acid core. That acid left on a copper wire turns it into green mush in no time. Cover it well with heat shrink and it just means you won't know until it fails.

Appleseed wrote: Is it wrong that I tin each end (with flux) and then solder them together, then heat shrink? It's always worked in a vibration mad R/C airplane.

Amen

I think Oldopelguy brings up a good point about solder selection. I use solder from Rat Shack with the composition of 62/36/2% tin/lead/silver. I know there's better solder out there, but this stuff works just fine for me.

OK, so for a real wireaphobe, what's the best way to heat the heat-shrink tubing without burning it?

The best way to shrink the heat shrink tubing is with a heat gun. You can do it with a lighter or match, but it's difficult to do without burning it.

In reply to doc_speeder:

Electric heat gun with variable heat output (high/low), and if you're working in tight quarters or like fun toys, get a wrap-around tip for the nozzle.

Bryce

volvoclearinghouse wrote: That's pretty much the exact tool I have, but mine was American made, so it was twice the price, and didn't come with all the fancy extra dies or the case. But it works very well.

See the dies on the bottom left? Those are for making spark plug wires.

All wires we do as a company (for performance work) are cut-to-fit. It's very easy, you start at the spark plugs, route them however you want to the distributor, then put the ends on. Done.

I play with engines with very short plug wires, so I can use the leftovers to make my own spiral-core wires for nothin'.

Toyman01 wrote: I'm lazy. I crimp everything. Never had a problem.

I'll vouch for the 'lazy' part.

demonspeed wrote: Manufacturers seem to frown upon soldering nowadays. I work at a VW dealership and VW requires us to crimp all our connections when we do wiring work. They published a training article at some point showing the weakness of most soldering compared to crimping and it was pretty convincing. I honestly prefer crimping anyways, it can be pretty easy and quick once you start doing it a lot. But I'm sure in most instances you could make either one work. To make it truly "plug-and-play" could you get some pins and put a connector in there so it can be removed by just unhooking the connector?

VW told us a few years ago that the average goober couldn't be trusted to properly solder anything. They also 'weld' the wire to the terminals (easy to see if you know what you are looking for) and said that was impossible to duplicate in the field.

This from the company best known for outrageous wiring and electrical gremlins.

So they made us buy this $3500 wiring repair kit which had a whole pile of terminals with about 4" of wire pre welded, the idea was to crimp this in place of the damaged terminal. It also had a crimp tool that wouldn't fit anywhere and a really snazzy box to carry all that stuff around. The replacement repair wires were about $2 each and had to be charged out on the repair order or they wouldn't pay the warranty claims. It was such a pain in the ass to use that the techs went right back to soldering up VW's cheap ass stuff and we'd file the claim making it look like it had been crimped. We didn't have comebacks, either.

Oh, oneother thing: in many cases a wiring problem is actually a result of the 'hardshell' plastic case failing (the molded locks don't hold the terminals in). There were a few hardshells in that $3500 kit, the rest had to be special ordered- IF THEY WERE AVAILABLE SEPARATELY! In a lot of cases you had to order an entire harness to get one lousy hardshell. And then the district rep would complain that warranty costs were out of line.