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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/13/12 2:30 p.m.

OK chaps, I can’t get a response in my what car thread, so here’s a call to classic SAAB 900 owners.

I hope to be going to check out an almost rust free car on Sunday with a view to bringing home with me. As it’s a 6+ hour drive each way, if I go I’m all but committed.

So those of you with classic SAAB turbo’ s or experience with them, tell me what you think. The appeal to me is the recipe of quirkiness of them, plus the added benefit of a magic spinning snail of awesome on the side combined with rally heritage, in total that equals a large portion of awesome to rival other ‘answers’ to the GRM’s dream project.

I’m not looking for championship winning autocross performance. I’m looking for fun. I’m fairly well up on the mechanical issues through Saabrally.com, but I’m looking for how people think they are too drive. With some springs and shocks how do you like them for Track days and autocross or TSD’s and rally cross? The biggest issue I can see is weight compared to wheels width if I want to stay with cheap and cheerful 15” ST type tires, plus the lack of a cheap LSD option. The other issue is the weakfish gearbox, but I’m not 16 anymore and 5k clutch drops are something I tut tut at rather than participate in.

conesare2seconds
conesare2seconds Reader
11/13/12 2:49 p.m.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/nordic-metal/

Gearhead_42
Gearhead_42 Dork
11/13/12 2:52 p.m.

I learned to drive in a C900 (S, not turbo). Blast to drive. Sticks with me enough that I'm more looking forward to driving my project 99 than my STi in the spring (I know, I need medication)

I enjoy torque steer

What year, as different years had different specs... 8V Turbo, 8V Intercooled Turbo, 16V Turbo... front handbrake vs. rear... 4x114 wheels vs 4x108... etc.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UltraDork
11/13/12 2:54 p.m.

I once traveled down this path and stopped by a shop that specialized in SAABs. The guy told me the transmissions are the weak link. He wasn't talking specifically about the turbo model, so I don't know if they are the same trans.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/13/12 2:54 p.m.
conesare2seconds wrote: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/nordic-metal/

Read it at least 5 times in the last month!

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/13/12 2:57 p.m.
Gearhead_42 wrote: I learned to drive in a C900 (S, not turbo). Blast to drive. Sticks with me enough that I'm more looking forward to driving my project 99 than my STi in the spring (I know, I need medication) I *enjoy* torque steer What year, as different years had different specs... 8V Turbo, 8V Intercooled Turbo, 16V Turbo... front handbrake vs. rear... 4x114 wheels vs 4x108... etc.

This car is an 88 so it's past the disintigrating wiring. It's a 16V turbo with EFI not hte 8V CSI. It also get's the later 9000 sized brakes and 4x108 wheels which opens it up to lot's of cheap Ford wheels. It's rear wheel handbrake.

The bad is it's a mousetrap seatbelt car so I'd have to find a way to get regular belts in and being an 88 not an 89 it gets the earlier gearbox. I know 2nd gear Syncro is crunchy.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
11/13/12 3:24 p.m.

Adrian.. shame you are not in the Northeast.. now that I got my Volvo.. I am going to finished the reassembly on my 87 turbo and let it go.

the good:

Newly rebuilt Transmission

88+ suspension

Perfect tan leather interior

New intercooler and oil cooler

new suspension bushings and brakes

16" super areo rims with new tyres

new 2.5 cat back exhaust

The Bad:

I had to do a rust repair on the spare tyre well, under the passenger door

Needs new doors

Needs a new hatch

Needs a new hood

If I can get my hands on the dead saab I am after.. it will have all those parts.. and it is also black. so makes it easier to swap everything

dabird
dabird Reader
11/13/12 3:56 p.m.

you can run but you can't hide

ls1fiero
ls1fiero Reader
11/13/12 5:21 p.m.

I have always been a muscle car type guy but have fallen completely for the C900s. I now own four. Parts cars are cheaper than parts...Transmissions are always bad so just plan on that. The cars are basically wonderful otherwise.Especially the convertibles.

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado PowerDork
11/13/12 5:48 p.m.

I worked at a racing buddy's indie SAAB shop for half a minute in the 1990s, he swore that the US SAAB Owners' Club was one of the best in the country.

http://www.saabclub.com/

Only other thing I could mention was that there was a rule in the shop (and even most of his mechanics were SAAB fanboys) that you never rest your hand on the gearshift lever while driving a customer's car. Use it only to change gear, and don't touch it for any other reason. His rationale was that so many (even 99s back then) gearboxes were so close to failure that we shouldn't tempt fate.

C900s are great cars. I'm still kicking myself for not picking up that '79 or '80 5-door one of the customers abandoned..that would have been the perfect Flag Marshal car. Plenty of room in the back for gear/campsite stuff, but still handled like a 900. I wonder how many of those things are left, finding a nice 5-door would still tempt me.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy Dork
11/14/12 6:46 a.m.

IMHO the gearbox issiue is overblown. Yes they are the weak link in the car, but not as weak as many would have you think, especially the later gear boxes. My '89 c900 turbo died at 250k in a hit and run. It still had the original gearbox, reverse was having trouble, but I now know there is an easy fix for that. My '88 turbo has 180k of hard use, and its gearbox is holding up.

Shift slow and deliberately, and be smooth with the clutch. With some practice you will get the feel of it, and be able to drive it plenty fast. The slow is fast adage applies to these gear boxes.

Also, thanks to equal lenght axels and good suspension, c900s have very little torque steer.

LSDs are hard to come by, but removing the front sway bar and using sticky tires will help it to corner under power, and I can even get mine to rotate a bit.

Good luck. .

Luke
Luke UberDork
11/14/12 7:24 a.m.

The gearbox in mine was replaced early on in the car's life, and it shifts perfectly. Better than any other I've driven. I mean, it's slow and clunky, but still miles nicer than my Alfetta was.

But, if this one you're looking at already has a crunchy 2nd gear synchro...is that not cause for concern? Or do they hold out indefinitely if treated with sympathy?

@FGC: man, I'd love an early 5-door as well. I've come across a couple, but they've both been autos. I think the earlier cars have a little extra charm over the later models.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
11/14/12 8:13 a.m.

the problem with the c900 gearboxes is, according to the tech who rebuilt mine.. is that people do not check or replace the oil. It uses motoroil, not gear lube and if it runs low.. will destroy the gearbox. Early 900s, like mine, have a seperate dipstick JUST for the gearbox.. makes checking fluid levels and condition easy

The other problem is chipped teeth. If they work their way back to the diff... that was the problem with my C900, it had a grenaded diff

Mezzanine
Mezzanine New Reader
11/14/12 8:30 a.m.
HappyAndy wrote: IMHO the gearbox issue is overblown.

This. I've put 100k miles on one with a very whiny pinion bearing, but it just keeps going. I am deliberate with it, I double clutch 90% of the time, but I am not afraid to get on it and hoon either.

I often start lusting after one car or another, but keep going back to my 900. They are simply wonderful cars to drive. Mine has needed nothing more than basic wear items and has 360,000 miles on it.

While I do have a Quaife LSD for my car, you can live without one pretty easily...I don't know if that is a function of the (practically) equal length drive shafts or what.

Also, for what it is worth, these things are unstoppable in the snow with a proper set of tires.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/14/12 9:03 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: the problem with the c900 gearboxes is, according to the tech who rebuilt mine.. is that people do not check or replace the oil. It uses motoroil, not gear lube and if it runs low.. will destroy the gearbox. Early 900s, like mine, have a seperate dipstick JUST for the gearbox.. makes checking fluid levels and condition easy The other problem is chipped teeth. If they work their way back to the diff... that was the problem with my C900, it had a grenaded diff

So the first thing is to change the oil then?

How hard are they to rebuild and get parts for?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/14/12 9:05 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: Adrian.. shame you are not in the Northeast.. now that I got my Volvo.. I am going to finished the reassembly on my 87 turbo and let it go. the good: Newly rebuilt Transmission 88+ suspension Perfect tan leather interior New intercooler and oil cooler new suspension bushings and brakes 16" super areo rims with new tyres new 2.5 cat back exhaust The Bad: I had to do a rust repair on the spare tyre well, under the passenger door Needs new doors Needs a new hatch Needs a new hood If I can get my hands on the dead saab I am after.. it will have all those parts.. and it is also black. so makes it easier to swap everything

I'm guessing that this car would be multiple times my budget anyway. I'm talking three digits here.

Fletch1
Fletch1 HalfDork
11/14/12 10:04 a.m.

I've had my eye on one for over a month now. It's a SPG. I'm about ready to call, even though I know nothing about them.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/14/12 12:13 p.m.
dabird wrote: you can run but you can't hide

Found me.

GRM community let me introduce you to the seller.

Truck and trailer arranged for Sunday

Powar
Powar Dork
11/14/12 12:37 p.m.

Matt's car is a decent one. It is solid where it matters, and if you're willing to tinker with it and correct some of the annoyances, I've no doubt that it'll be fun for years to come.

Matt said he was going to mention my offer of a set of black doors. Should I plan to make the trip to southern IN to get them for you?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/14/12 12:42 p.m.

In reply to Powar:

Ah, I didn't know it was you, I'll pm you.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
11/14/12 1:00 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: Truck and trailer arranged for Sunday

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
11/14/12 1:00 p.m.

Powar. PM Sent

bluescooby
bluescooby New Reader
11/14/12 8:54 p.m.

Good luck! My grandfather owned and sold a 900 Turbo before I was old enough to drive it; it's on my short list now...

RexSeven
RexSeven UltraDork
11/14/12 9:28 p.m.

I don't know if you will need them, but I found these front control arm underbody patch panels on a Saab 900 eBay listing (was considering one for a winter beater).

http://autorust.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=302&zenid=2ba9f79oibk17qr9hg3m9oqga5

procainestart
procainestart Dork
11/14/12 10:23 p.m.

Often when a non-car person drives my 89 900, they remark on how much fun it is to drive. I believe this is because of the double-wishbone suspension and front geometry, which cannot be replicated with struts. Also, the axles are nearly equal length, so torque steer isn't bad.

Maybe I'm too attached, but I've not yet driven a newer, sharper car and wished I didn't have a 23-year-old Saab.

I used to run the stock 89T on street tires in autocross. You can put tons of camber in with shims (I also ran an 86 with so much camber that the tires hit the springs unless they were on the ground; the car easily oversteered from the front grip). It's got a lot of torque when the boost kicks in and you won't dominate anyone but I had a helluva good time running it.

My friend and I TSD an 85T. We took it on Alcan 5000 and ran it to and on the Arctic Ocean in Feb. We ran it deep in the boost for hours at a time on that event; she never hiccuped. I'll be running it at a TSD this weekend up in B.C., where it will almost turn 300k miles, original bottom end (cross hatches still visible at 250k). It has a Quaife, is lifted a bit, skidplate, "boxed" control arms, and lifted SPG springs, but that's really about it. We cannot seem to kill it. It has thousands and thousands of miles on gravel and snow. Yes, it's rattly as hell now, but is quiet on the highway, and drives quite nicely to/from events.

I think that it's certainly possible to have the gearboxes last, but my experience with six or seven 900s is that you're odds aren't good (all had issues, from bad synchros [83, 86, 92] to pinion bearings [86, 89] to outright destruction [85]). The best ones are from 89 and 90s, second best are from 91-93. I currently have two rebuilts and I change the gear oil every 20k. Both get different flavors of Redline, as the transmission acts as a big heatsink.

Finally, my car recently made 200 whp on a Mustang dyno; stock is 160 crank. You could do the same for about $20-$50 and a day, depending on your pick-n-pull's prices. More is achievable without considerable effort.

EDIT: My car has the STUPID passive seatbelts, too. Lucky for us, though, every other market had standard belts, so you can replace the passive stuff; the fastener points are all in the car. Note, however, that the belts have to come from an 88-89 base model 900 3-door, or 87 and earlier hatch -- not positive how far back, but probably at least to 83. (In '90, they went to a different buckle shape.) You'll need the interior panels from the donor car as well, or you may be able to carve out holes in the existing panels (the standard belts' reels are behind the panels, with a pass-through hole for the belts). There's a FAQ on Saabnet. If you are OCD, then you'll also replace the headliner, which is different on passive-belt cars.

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