Spec Miata vs Spec Z

What up GRM?

Alright, basically I am trying to lock myself into a specific club class, but I want to be sure I am making the decision that will make ME the most happy. I am between Spec Miata and Spec Z. Spec e30...I've looked into BMW stuff before, and I would rather stick with Japanese stuff. I already have the tools for them, and parts seem plentiful (I know they are for the Miata...350, I would imagine).

The plan is to daily drive the car for the next year or so, run it into the ground, and then once I'm more financially secure, I can buy a new family car, and hack the Z/Miata up.

• So Miata has the advantage of factory adjustable double wishbone, lightness/nimbleness, cheap consumables, AND the Mazdaspeed program, which gets you pretty awesome discounts on parts.

• The bad is that the Miata, while fun to drive, isn't exactly FAST in stock form. I mean sure, its awesome in the corners, but I see the Z cars running circles around them here at our track. Plus, I would have to pick up a hard top to run HPDE events in the meantime (expensive...)

• The other negative is the Miata is SMALL. I barely fit as it is. I'm sure I could do all the little tricks to get myself comfortable enough, but the Zs just look so much more tall-guy friendly. I would rather be comfortable with margin left over, than crammed painfully.

The Z...Honestly I dont know an incredible amount about them, aside from the fact that the camber is pretty much unadjustable in OEM form, and that they are heavy pigs of cars :P. Does Nissan have a NISMO type discount program, similar to the Mazda one? How would consumables compare? I really love the sound of an unquorked VQ...

Another question: I know the Miata is actually a pretty competent car in the snow, provided you equip it with nice, skinny snow tires. Here we see maybe a few days a year of heavy snow, so I am interested in how the Z would handle snow. I know tire width would be greater, which is bad in the snow (my understanding), and I know the car is also heavier. Anybody driven a Z in the snow?

Thanks for all your input guys. This would be for NASA BTW.

Look at the participation level at the races you will most likely attend and plan for the class with the biggest field.

How many Spec Z racing events/organizations are there compared to Spec Miata? I'm under the impression that not many people track 350Zs. If you want pure power, which it seems, you already know the answer. If you want to race the most fun car, you will probably need to borrow or rent both and drive both of them on a HPDE.

It may seem like the Miata will cost more because you have to buy a hardtop, you can wait and buy either car that is already mildly or moderately prepped to race. The Miata would come with one, and both would be cheaper and easier to race with.

If you want to start from scratch and buy either cars stock, a NB Miata can be bought with a hardtop for cheaper than a 350Z. I've seen fiberglass hardtops for Miatas advertised for either $750 or $850.

I own a 370, not a 350, but the experiences are similar. I've also owned a dozed or so Miatas, and ran a Spec Miata once. If I had to choose between the two, Miata. It's far easier on consumables, and learning speed maintenance is invaluable. It's also probably more fun on track. Not knocking the Nissan, as I love mine, but think the Miata is almost the perfect track car, especially for someone without a lot of experience / and or lots of money to spend on tires and brakes.

You would need a roll bar and not a hard top to run the miata around here on the track at all (HPDE included). Beaware they also call them "spec pinata" for a reason). Haven't seen any spec Z cars out here but a lot of improved touring cars around and those vary as widely as SE-Rs, Probe, CRX, Miata, RX7 so don't rule that group out. Lots of spec e30 cars in this group. Other classes to consider are spec 944 or go V8 with the camaro mustang challenge (cmc), there seem to be a good number of them out and about also. As GPS said, check and see how many people show up at all the races in your area.

I've had a few friends try Spec Miata and quit. Almost entirely because they were tired of getting needlessly booted off track and people generally being idiots. I don't know how much that applies to other Spec series, but it seems the lower field count (or higher barrier to entry?) might actually be a benefit in that regard. They got tired of fixing the body work on the car. They did say they liked the fact that the cars were cheap to run and highly reliable.

Yeah, Johndej, I believe NASA allows you to do HPDE in Miata here with no roll-bar, but you have to have an OEM hardtop. Also, there are like 4 guys running the Zs out here, whereas there are like 7 guys running the Miatas. Not a huge difference, but Miata would have a bigger field. The touring cars might be something to look into...

NASA is track to track on the hardtop with no roll cage rule. Check with your local region first. The no roll cage is probably pretty rare nowadays for Miata's and other open cars.

I will say SM because it's the most popular class in the country for a reason.

You didn't mention where you live. Your region may offer other classes or options. I recommend visiting a NASA or SCCA weekend and ask around.

Also it's much cheaper to buy a pre-built racecar than to build. Buy whatever you like now, you can always sell it or keep it as your daily driver in a year or 2.

I would rather race the Miata against a bunch of crazies then get a trophy for just showing up in a smaller class. Wheel to wheel racing is about racing someone. If there are only 4 potential other racers and they don’t all show up or are significantly quicker than you, that sucks the fun out of it. If you aren’t going to have anyone to race with, then why not stick with track days? Cheaper and more seat time.

Does Spec Z exist? I've never seen one here in SF Bay racing w/ the SCCA and occasionally NASA.

I've seen plenty of SE30 and SM action around here though. Spec Mustang too. American Sedan in SCCA is also a neat looking class. Then again so it most of the Improved Touring or Performance Touring classes. Just not as many direct competitors (i.e. same car, similar skill level) as SE30 and SM due to the car counts.

Spec Miata: There is NO way you want to track a miata without a roll bar. A hardtop will not protect you in the least in a rollover. Miatas are CHEAP, but they will still have expenses (like any car). (hell a friend of mine was just looking at one that needed fenders and a clutch slave for $1500) Any 350z will REALLY quickly eclipse the expenses of the miata. Tires alone... Price them for each car and get back to me...

Spec Z: never heard of this class.

S-E30: what different tools? they are all metric. (yeah, you gotta get a few torx bits, but thats about all that comes to mind) Probably a bit better of a way to go, also cheap... your trading a bit smaller of a field for a less crashy crowd.

What about Spec RX7? Cars are DIRT cheap.

Have you considered a vintage class? It is outside the scope of your original question, but I see it recommended in other threads often.

pushrod36 wrote: Have you considered a vintage class? It is outside the scope of your original question, but I see it recommended in other threads often.

Actually a vintage class is not really outside the original question. Miatas are now 25+ years old. My first choice would be to enter SM but I also suggest you spend some time finding where the Miata is going to fit in vintage classes beforehand.

Further I can't imagine any part with a BMW roundel being as reasonably priced as Miata parts. However I haven't done any real research to verify that opinion. While subcontracting for BMW for several years I never found any of their parts priced similar to a Japanese produced or branded equivalent part.

Rupert wrote:

pushrod36 wrote: Have you considered a vintage class? It is outside the scope of your original question, but I see it recommended in other threads often.

Actually a vintage class is not really outside the original question. Miatas are now 25+ years old. My first choice would be to enter SM but I also suggest you spend some time finding where the Miata is going to fit in vintage classes beforehand.

I race vintage and I'm not aware of any vintage org that accepts Miatas at this point. Most cut-off dates are in the 1970's, with some going to early 80's. There are some exceptions with more recent purpose-built racecars, but that's about it.

Sit in each car. Imagine getting out the window, with a roll cage, wearing a helmet and a HANS device. In 30 seconds or less.

That put Spec Miata right out of my head.

In reply to Basil Exposition: As I understand it, and I'm not currently racing anything, the early Miata is expected to be eligible in some vintage series within the next year or so. Since he said he planned to drive whatever he selects into the ground before he went racing, I felt by the time he made the series call, the vintage designations for the Miata would have been known. That's why I suggested he do his due diligence.

I believe SVRA allows Miatas. Also, you can run Miatas in Improved Touring as well.

Duke wrote: Sit in each car. Imagine getting out the window, with a roll cage, wearing a helmet and a HANS device. In 30 seconds or less. That put Spec Miata right out of *my* head.

I'd try to be a good bit faster than 30 seconds too. Even the best equipment is going to only buy you so much time. I seriously doubt I could hold a propane torch on my shoes or suit for more than 10 seconds before bad things started to happen.

In reply to Rupert:

I have both a first gen Miata, and an E34 525. Parts are very similar prices for both. I can get Centric rotors for the E34 for less than $30 each, and so far I like Centric stuff on my Miata. For OEM parts prices I'm not sure how big of a price spread there is, if any, but I don't buy OEM parts that often as I'm cheap anyway.

-Hamid

Desmond wrote: Plus, I would have to pick up a hard top to run HPDE events in the meantime (expensive...)

I'll be honest, I quit reading your post here and didn't read any other responses. If you think $1k for a hardtop is "expensive," you don't have the scratch for regular HPDE's and car building. Even in my 1.6 Miata at my super cheap local track, once you figure in gas/fees/consumables/food/water, etc. $500+ per weekend.

Save up the money for the next year and just buy an already built car.

racerdave600 wrote: I believe SVRA allows Miatas. Also, you can run Miatas in Improved Touring as well.

Now that you mention it, I think SVRA does allow Miatas in a modern run group. If SVRA does, then HSR probably does, too. It could be that other groups are considering it, but I don't know of any others that currently allow them.

Most vintage groups shy away from allowing current racecars in. Often they run off more entries than they gain.

z31maniac wrote:

Desmond wrote: Plus, I would have to pick up a hard top to run HPDE events in the meantime (expensive...)

I'll be honest, I quit reading your post here and didn't read any other responses. If you think $1k for a hardtop is "expensive," you don't have the scratch for regular HPDE's and car building. Even in my 1.6 Miata at my super cheap local track, once you figure in gas/fees/consumables/food/water, etc. $500+ per weekend. Save up the money for the next year and just buy an already built car.

I am not talking about the future, I am talking about now. I could run HPDEs right now in another car, (350z) and spend maybe 500-600 on brakes, tires, fluids right now. I already plan to put a roll bar in the Miata, for DD safety sake. That alone is about 1200 bucks (combining the costs from before). Throw a hardtop on top of that and I'm sitting at 2200 bucks. For spec racing? Thats a very insignificant amount, sure. But for running simple HPDE events? Thats a bit ridiculous.

Sure the hardtop is a one-time expense, as is the rollbar, but its just a pain considering most other cars, you simply throw some tires and brakes on them and you're good to go for HPDE.

Basil Exposition wrote:

racerdave600 wrote: I believe SVRA allows Miatas. Also, you can run Miatas in Improved Touring as well.

Now that you mention it, I think SVRA does allow Miatas in a modern run group. If SVRA does, then HSR probably does, too. It could be that other groups are considering it, but I don't know of any others that currently allow them. Most vintage groups shy away from allowing current racecars in. Often they run off more entries than they gain.

There are always some Spec Miatas on track at the Mitty, so HSR must welcome them.

In reply to Desmond: Buy either car prepped so you don't have to worry about those expenses, not to mention that a Miata will be cheaper to race, anyway.

Do not pick your race series based on the car. Pick your race series based on who you want to race with. Go to the events you frequent and hang out with people in the various series you are considering competing in. Which group do you want to hang out, chat, and drink beer with in the time you're not racing? That is the race series you want to be in.

Also... I recommend against building your first spec car. You will save money buying an already prepped one, and will not waste as much time figuring out how to do it right. Then, build your second car after you have learned what you did and did not like about your first car.

You will also waste a lot of money turning an HPDE car into a spec car. Miata? You don't want a full cage for a street-driven vehicle, but need one for SM. You'll also discover all the little repairs and upgrades you made that turned out to be not spec-legal.