Speeding tickets

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You see the guy get pulled over and have no other facts. You ASSUME it is for speeding, you ASSUME he got a ticket, you ASSUME his boss gives him E36 M3 for being late, you make a bunch of excuses, and now it's my fault. I love it. 
 

Again I'll ask. From what I read you drive a school bus and are on a schedule. If a parent is late to the bus stop every day, are you as the bus driver an shiny happy person or is that parent? It's a simple question. 
 

You mentioned he always brings your tools back clean, what if he didn't and gave you the same excuses you're making for him here, that would be ok right? After all, he has reasons

Bus drivers are required to keep a schedule.  But the reason for being is to get children safely to school and back home again.  That is a natural conflict because sometimes students are late.  I take a big careful look around before I drive off and wait for the late running student.  
    I don't have to worry about it being an issue. Pier pressure is much worse than anything I can say.  So instead I great them with a friendly good morning.  It's tough enough being a kid, why start them off with grief.  
   Incidentally  I typically am the closest  to on time arrival at the school.  In spite of railroads, road accidents, weather and other issues.   Yes there are times when I need to push the speed limits.  With the computer watching my GPS times and 5 on board camera's monitoring my every moment. The company knows exactly what I'm doing. Every second 

We just had 2 children killed by speeding cars on side streets here in Cleveland.  Just pay the ticket and get out out of bed 1/2 hour earlier.

Mustang50 said:

We just had 2 children killed by speeding cars on side streets here in Cleveland.  Just pay the ticket and get out out of bed 1/2 hour earlier.

I'm sorry you failed to read the issue.  
   First the problem is the issue of being in two places at once. Dropping his children off at day care. And arriving at work at nearly the same time.

   He could get up and get the children going your half hour earlier. Only to have to wait a half hour  for day care to open.  
     
Without children you have no understanding of how hard it is to get suitable day care.  I digress, 
    
The main issue is how unfair enforcement is.   The Freeway he was ticketed on, average speed is about what he got a ticket for.   So of the tens of thousands of commuters he was selected for a ticket.  
 

Mustang50 said:

We just had 2 children killed by speeding cars on side streets here in Cleveland.  Just pay the ticket and get out out of bed 1/2 hour earlier.

Read the post.

Even when doing nothing wrong, or attempting to comply and do the right thing, people can be victimized. I want cops to focus on violent crime reduction and pursuing murderers, not neighbor Bob trying to get his kids to school and make it to work on time.

https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-black-hole.html

Life isn't fair. The sooner people realize that the sooner we can move on with reality. Bitching and moaning about it on the internet does no one any good. 

Unfortunately it's really expensive to be in a cash poor situation like your neighbor is in and our society rewards social status and social connections more than it rewards hard work.  On top of that our base taxation systems as well as punitive taxation systems (speeding tickets, court fees, etc) disproportionately impacts those of us in the lower income brackets.

frenchyd said:

Mustang50 said:

We just had 2 children killed by speeding cars on side streets here in Cleveland.  Just pay the ticket and get out out of bed 1/2 hour earlier.

 

The main issue is how unfair enforcement is.   The Freeway he was ticketed on, average speed is about what he got a ticket for.   So of the tens of thousands of commuters he was selected for a ticket.

As a cop once told my father:

"We can't stop everybody at once.  So we have to pick one."

E36 M3 happens.  Even to "good" people.  Reading too much into the specifics of this particular event is a total waste of time.

Road pirates.

If most people didn't drive "safely" there would be a completely unacceptable level of accidents. Little to no speed limits are based on any pracitcal statistical analysis of speed and really determining what level is really pushing the limits of what is acceptable vs not. Start setting the limits appropriately based on some scientific analysis and I'll start paying attention to them.

I have 3 children and both my wife and I worked.  We had to make arrangements with work and schools.  My suggestion is to talk to the school and?or the boss to make an acceptable schedule.  Also check with the parents of other children to see about car pooling.  Just drive safely you wouldn't want to be the one who injures or kills a child trying to make there way to school.

Mustang50 said:

I have 3 children and both my wife and I worked.  We had to make arrangements with work and schools.  My suggestion is to talk to the school and?or the boss to make an acceptable schedule.  Also check with the parents of other children to see about car pooling.  Just drive safely you wouldn't want to be the one who injures or kills a child trying to make there way to school.

Thank you for attempting to sound reasonable.  I don't doubt your concern about your children's  safety for a minute. But the freeway isn't where kids  are in danger.  It's city and suburban roads.  
   As a school  Bus driver I know how vulnerable children are. The danger zone is within 10 feet any direction of the school bus. 
 Yet the worst offenders of the stop arm is always women.   Multitasking women, zooming by ignoring the stop arm, maybe turned around disciplining her children.  I've seen them recognizing they are driving through the stop arm and red flashing lites, look up at me and shrug. 
  So frequently it happens that I've trained the kids on the bus how to capture the license plate number.    Then I call base with everything and they get a ticket in the mail for $500.   
  My worst case was a mother who at the last second swerved to avoid hitting the back of the bus.  ( yellow flashing lites on 150 ft before the stop lites and then when the doors open the red goes on and the stop arm comes out. )  so she didn't see that??!!   But she missed the bus and driving on the curb/sidewalk passed  the bus just as the door  swung open.   The movement caught my eye and I slammed the door shut to keep the kids on the bus.

 I doubt any one of them were speeding.  
    So speed doesn't kill, being a mother busy with multitasking does.    
   
     

So how much was his ticket? What was the speed?

YoursTruly said:

Even when doing nothing wrong, or attempting to comply and do the right thing, people can be victimized. I want cops to focus on violent crime reduction and pursuing murderers, not neighbor Bob trying to get his kids to school and make it to work on time.

https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-black-hole.html

 

Yes it would be ideal if police, DAs, and governments went after real criminals instead of easy revenue.  Congratulations for being the first person to understand part of my point.  

bobzilla said:

Life isn't fair. The sooner people realize that the sooner we can move on with reality. Bitching and moaning about it on the internet does no one any good. 

You are correct on both points.  The solution would be to start supporting each other against the people making it so unfair.  I'd love to see that happen.  

YoursTruly said:

Even when doing nothing wrong, or attempting to comply and do the right thing, people can be victimized. I want cops to focus on violent crime reduction and pursuing murderers, not neighbor Bob trying to get his kids to school and make it to work on time.

https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-black-hole.html

 

Well said.   How many murders go unsolved?   Even those that are "solved",  how many  go  Unprosecuted? 
     

No Time said:

So how much was his ticket? What was the speed?

Speeding tickets in Minnesota are $300, plus court costs to attempt to prove your innocence.   He was going 72 in a 60.  About what most people travel at.  

So after 4 pages here is my takeway:

The poor guy painted himself into a corner where everything has to line up perfectly everyday and on one particular day it didn't.

Yes the boss may be unyielding, yes the cops may have arbitrarily pulled you out of a line of cars & yes day care arrangements may be difficult.

Unfortunately these were known facts prior to making the decision to buy a house where he did.

MrFancypants said:

Unfortunately it's really expensive to be in a cash poor situation like your neighbor is in and our society rewards social status and social connections more than it rewards hard work.  On top of that our base taxation systems as well as punitive taxation systems (speeding tickets, court fees, etc) disproportionately impacts those of us in the lower income brackets.

Well said. 
       A decent hard working young man needs breaks. Not additional burdens.  
  While I don't know how to implement such a deal,  I really would love to hear any suggestions to improve that situation. 
   How about a sliding scale sort of deal?  1 free warning, 1 ticket at $20?  Then $100 and $1000?   

frenchyd said:

No Time said:

So how much was his ticket? What was the speed?

Speeding tickets in Minnesota are $300, plus court costs to attempt to prove your innocence.   He was going 72 in a 60.  About what most people travel at.  

Okay what MN law is he being charged with and what does it say?  We do any READING yet.  Almost every municipality offers a deferred adjudication option too, or an option to take a driver training course etc.  

They prefer you just rollover and pay though.

frenchyd said:

MrFancypants said:

Unfortunately it's really expensive to be in a cash poor situation like your neighbor is in and our society rewards social status and social connections more than it rewards hard work.  On top of that our base taxation systems as well as punitive taxation systems (speeding tickets, court fees, etc) disproportionately impacts those of us in the lower income brackets.

Well said. 
       A decent hard working young man needs breaks. Not additional burdens.  
  While I don't know how to implement such a deal,  I really would love to hear any suggestions to improve that situation. 
   How about a sliding scale sort of deal?  1 free warning, 1 ticket at $20?  Then $100 and $1000?   

With all due respect the guy was 20% over the speed limit. Your asking for to fix a symptom of the problem. At the end of the day with his current job situation (as I noted above) he painted himself into a corner.

frenchyd said:

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You see the guy get pulled over and have no other facts. You ASSUME it is for speeding, you ASSUME he got a ticket, you ASSUME his boss gives him E36 M3 for being late, you make a bunch of excuses, and now it's my fault. I love it. 
 

Again I'll ask. From what I read you drive a school bus and are on a schedule. If a parent is late to the bus stop every day, are you as the bus driver an shiny happy person or is that parent? It's a simple question. 
 

You mentioned he always brings your tools back clean, what if he didn't and gave you the same excuses you're making for him here, that would be ok right? After all, he has reasons

Bus drivers are required to keep a schedule.  But the reason for being is to get children safely to school and back home again.  That is a natural conflict because sometimes students are late.  I take a big careful look around before I drive off and wait for the late running student.  
    I don't have to worry about it being an issue. Pier pressure is much worse than anything I can say.  So instead I great them with a friendly good morning.  It's tough enough being a kid, why start them off with grief.  
   Incidentally  I typically am the closest  to on time arrival at the school.  In spite of railroads, road accidents, weather and other issues.   Yes there are times when I need to push the speed limits.  With the computer watching my GPS times and 5 on board camera's monitoring my every moment. The company knows exactly what I'm doing. Every second 

His Boss wants to keep a schedule, but he shows up late everyday. You seem to think that makes the boss an shiny happy person instead of him. That's like saying if a late parent screwed up your required schedule and you had an issue with it, you're the shiny happy person not the late parent. 
 

frenchyd said:

MrFancypants said:

Unfortunately it's really expensive to be in a cash poor situation like your neighbor is in and our society rewards social status and social connections more than it rewards hard work.  On top of that our base taxation systems as well as punitive taxation systems (speeding tickets, court fees, etc) disproportionately impacts those of us in the lower income brackets.

Well said. 
       A decent hard working young man needs breaks. Not additional burdens.  
  While I don't know how to implement such a deal,  I really would love to hear any suggestions to improve that situation. 
   How about a sliding scale sort of deal?  1 free warning, 1 ticket at $20?  Then $100 and $1000?   

I'd like to see a traffic fine structure that's tied directly to the fair market value of the vehicle you were driving.  There's no perfect solution here, but adding another 0 to the end of the fine someone pays when they own/drive a $100k luxury product compared to someone who can only afford a $10k Civic might inject some equity into the system.  Also create more zones that determine the rate of your fine...  for example, right now you get charged more for speeding in a school zone, which is good.  Maybe also fine people more for speeding in residential zones, and less when speeding on freeways with no possibility of cross traffic or pedestrians.

Also, if safety *really* is the reason for these fines (rather than revenue generation), instead allowing local governments to just pocket the cash set up a lottery system.  Set up speed cameras at key locations where there are an above average number of incidents and instead of fining people for speeding, enter them into the lottery if they abiding by traffic laws.

frenchyd said:

Mustang50 said:

We just had 2 children killed by speeding cars on side streets here in Cleveland.  Just pay the ticket and get out out of bed 1/2 hour earlier.

I'm sorry you failed to read the issue.  
   First the problem is the issue of being in two places at once. Dropping his children off at day care. And arriving at work at nearly the same time.

   He could get up and get the children going your half hour earlier. Only to have to wait a half hour  for day care to open.  
     
Without children you have no understanding of how hard it is to get suitable day care.  I digress, 
    
The main issue is how unfair enforcement is.   The Freeway he was ticketed on, average speed is about what he got a ticket for.   So of the tens of thousands of commuters he was selected for a ticket.  
 

 

None of that is his Bosses doing or concern. He chose to do whatever things he did to put Himself in that situation. His boss was not involved in any of the housing, children, and daycare decisions.  His boss is not a jerk for wanting the guy to show up on time as he committed to when he took the job. 
 

We are all responsible for the decisions we make and the outcome of those decision, having a "good excuse" does not change that

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Really?   
 Please think about the last time you took your car into the dealership.   You waited in line for people to fill out the work order and then they took the car and brought it to the next mechanic.  At 8:00 20 cars didn't instantly appear in the mechanics bay to be worked on.  
    Mechanics are paid against the flat rate manual.  Not by the hour.  So obsession with punctuality is completely arbitrary on part of his boss.  
      Most people work to support the life they've chosen.  The time clock obsessed boss is being foolish.  Good mechanics are in short supply.  Managers on the other hand are a dime a dozen. 

MrFancypants said:

frenchyd said:

MrFancypants said:

Unfortunately it's really expensive to be in a cash poor situation like your neighbor is in and our society rewards social status and social connections more than it rewards hard work.  On top of that our base taxation systems as well as punitive taxation systems (speeding tickets, court fees, etc) disproportionately impacts those of us in the lower income brackets.

Well said. 
       A decent hard working young man needs breaks. Not additional burdens.  
  While I don't know how to implement such a deal,  I really would love to hear any suggestions to improve that situation. 
   How about a sliding scale sort of deal?  1 free warning, 1 ticket at $20?  Then $100 and $1000?   

I'd like to see a traffic fine structure that's tied directly to the fair market value of the vehicle you were driving.  There's no perfect solution here, but adding another 0 to the end of the fine someone pays when they own/drive a $100k luxury product compared to someone who can only afford a $10k Civic might inject some equity into the system.  Also create more zones that determine the rate of your fine...  for example, right now you get charged more for speeding in a school zone, which is good.  Maybe also fine people more for speeding in residential zones, and less when speeding on freeways with no possibility of cross traffic or pedestrians.

Also, if safety *really* is the reason for these fines (rather than revenue generation), instead allowing local governments to just pocket the cash set up a lottery system.  Set up speed cameras at key locations where there are an above average number of incidents and instead of fining people for speeding, enter them into the lottery if they abiding by traffic laws.

That's a great thought.  Might be a little harsh for the guy who saved for a nice car, but nothing is perfect so OK 

    Except, roads are for driving.  Not a playground for children or pets. Nor should there be stop signs every block, speed bumps etc.  

 Most vehicles pollute less  and are most efficient at 40 mph than any other speed. Stopping and starting drives up asthma issues.    So the roads need to be re-engineered for that. Yield signs instead of stop signs.  Sidewalks  to walk ( jog, bicycle, run ) on instead  of the street.  Traffic circles rather than intersections

OK, rules should change as electric cars become more dominant.