Speeding tickets

frenchyd said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Really?   
 Please think about the last time you took your car into the dealership.   You waited in line for people to fill out the work order and then they took the car and brought it to the next mechanic.  At 8:00 20 cars didn't instantly appear in the mechanics bay to be worked on.  
    Mechanics are paid against the flat rate manual.  Not by the hour.  So obsession with punctuality is completely arbitrary on part of his boss.  
      Most people work to support the life they've chosen.  The time clock obsessed boss is being foolish.  Good mechanics are in short supply.  Managers on the other hand are a dime a dozen. 

Yes, really. He has to be at work at a certain time. It's part of the job. Any excuse of why he can't is just an excuse. YOU might not think it's a big deal, but the guy paying him does. The same way YOUR boss expects kids to be at school at a certain time, if YOU were late everyday, but had a good excuse, would your boss be ok with it? Why should his?

frenchyd said:

MrFancypants said:

frenchyd said:

MrFancypants said:

Unfortunately it's really expensive to be in a cash poor situation like your neighbor is in and our society rewards social status and social connections more than it rewards hard work.  On top of that our base taxation systems as well as punitive taxation systems (speeding tickets, court fees, etc) disproportionately impacts those of us in the lower income brackets.

Well said. 
       A decent hard working young man needs breaks. Not additional burdens.  
  While I don't know how to implement such a deal,  I really would love to hear any suggestions to improve that situation. 
   How about a sliding scale sort of deal?  1 free warning, 1 ticket at $20?  Then $100 and $1000?   

I'd like to see a traffic fine structure that's tied directly to the fair market value of the vehicle you were driving.  There's no perfect solution here, but adding another 0 to the end of the fine someone pays when they own/drive a $100k luxury product compared to someone who can only afford a $10k Civic might inject some equity into the system.  Also create more zones that determine the rate of your fine...  for example, right now you get charged more for speeding in a school zone, which is good.  Maybe also fine people more for speeding in residential zones, and less when speeding on freeways with no possibility of cross traffic or pedestrians.

Also, if safety *really* is the reason for these fines (rather than revenue generation), instead allowing local governments to just pocket the cash set up a lottery system.  Set up speed cameras at key locations where there are an above average number of incidents and instead of fining people for speeding, enter them into the lottery if they abiding by traffic laws.

That's a great thought.  Might be a little harsh for the guy who saved for a nice car, but nothing is perfect so OK 

    Except, roads are for driving.  Not a playground for children or pets. Nor should there be stop signs every block, speed bumps etc.  

 Most vehicles pollute less  and are most efficient at 40 mph than any other speed. Stopping and starting drives up asthma issues.    So the roads need to be re-engineered for that. Yield signs instead of stop signs.  Sidewalks  to walk ( jog, bicycle, run ) on instead  of the street.  Traffic circles rather than intersections

OK, rules should change as electric cars become more dominant.  
 

Yeah roads are for driving, but often it feels like a road got jammed right through pedestrian dominated areas. Lots of kids in my neighborhood and they're often playing on or near the street, so there's no excuse for speeding here. So from that point of view I don't see why packed residential areas shouldn't be looked at more closely.

But at the same time... the fines for speeding on freeways are insane. 85 in a 70 isn't really a big safety risk.

In reply to MrFancypants 
 You make an interesting point.  
    Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.  
when you say road, are you talking about a through road designed to carry dense traffic?  

frenchyd said:

In reply to MrFancypants 
 You make an interesting point.  
    Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.  
when you say road, are you talking about a through road designed to carry dense traffic?  

I know it's different depending on where you live, but where I'm at the overwhelming majority of residential areas aren't designed in a way where through traffic can happen.  In most of these types of neighborhoods there's nearly zero chance for dense traffic. 

As far as the roads going between them actually designed for higher volumes of traffic, I'm not talking about those.  It seems pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that people or kids shouldn't be playing on or anywhere near those.

There's a lot of gray area here, but basically if you're driving along a street where it's reasonable to see kids playing basketball in the driveway maybe those are roads are more important from a safety perspective than others.

Where children can run out into the street chasing a ball ( running to catch a bus etc)  I don't know that any speed limit is safe. 
       Hedges,  fences, etc  can make it safer at least children have to go around them.  Probably best if there is a gate children would be required to shut  if they are going to play in the yard.   Actually better if children are supervised by an adult aware of threat cars. Present to children.  
 Even a neighbor could be distracted momentarily and be involved in a tragedy  

frenchyd said:

Where children can run out into the street chasing a ball ( running to catch a bus etc)  I don't know that any speed limit is safe. 

Perfect is the enemy of good.  No solution will guarantee 100% safety, but some are more safe than others.

As a boss of a small business, if one of my employees was consistently late, I'd have a huge issue with it.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't emphasize for their reasons why, but I need my people here 15 minutes before patient care starts, no matter what.  If one was always late because of scheduling issues for any reason, I'd have to let them go.

So no, I don't see how this is the Boss being a jerk.  Your friend needs to figure out how to get to work on time.  Knowing my wife's business, she's open for kid drop off at 7am, no earlier.  So if that's the case with your friends daycare situation he needs to find someone who can watch his kids and take them to daycare for him so he can leave earlier for work to get to work on time.  Or try and find a different job that allows him to show up later.  Or move closer to work.  Or look into some other situation to make this work.

In reply to docwyte :

I'll repeat my earlier statement.  If you open at 8:00 are all your patients checked in at 8:00 or does your need for people grow as more and more are checked in?  
          Here is the deal as I know it. He's a leading mechanic and usually beats flat rate.   Been with the dealership since training. Typically the go to guy when others are stuck.  He gets compliments not complaints about his work from customers. 
         He'd leave in a heart beat if there was another dealer closer or even a similar commute time.  While top management fully appreciates him. His manager obsesses over minutes, even fractions of a minute. ( time he's not actually paid for ). There have been many times when he arrives a bit late but no car is yet delivered to his stall. ( again he's paid by flat rate not hourly).  
      There are two different ways to get there but  that decision point has to be made prior to getting to where the bottlenecks typically form. So even his GPS can't help him.  The problem is worst on snow days,  when the roads become giant parking lots.  If the bottleneck doesn't develop or develops after he's through  he can be 10-15 minutes early.  

MrFancypants said:

frenchyd said:

Where children can run out into the street chasing a ball ( running to catch a bus etc)  I don't know that any speed limit is safe. 

Perfect is the enemy of good.  No solution will guarantee 100% safety, but some are more safe than others.

One of the reasons I sold my first house was there was virtually no yard to play in  and I had a new born with another to arrive later.  Now   I'm at the end of a dead end. With only local traffic.  My kids grew up with turtles crossing the road to lay their eggs in my yard.  ( lack of traffic) 

     You saw the roads and understood the traffic. Prior to your purchasing your home.  If that layout isn't safe for children. Perhaps your choice failed to take that into  consideration?   
      Your feelings are understandable. As parents we do all we can to protect our children. But yes some of your neighbors will make mistakes.  Even you might make a mistake.  ( I know I do). 
 Plus bad things happen.  The house down the street may sell and  rowdy teenagers move in.  Motorcycles and noisy cars.   Or in my case the neighbor from Hell-o move in and make things miserable.    While you can choose the house you can't choose your neighbors. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Doesn't matter if the patient isn't there at 8.  They're scheduled to be there at 8 and we need to be ready for them, which means my people need to be here at 7:45.  If a person is consistently late, which then makes them late to see the patient, which means they're late to see every patient until lunch time, that's a HUGE problem for me.  That leads to unhappy patients, who then tell their friends and leave my practice and leave negative google reviews, which impact my ability to bring in more new patients.  That isn't how I want or expect my patients to be treated or how I run my business.  That leads to that employee getting fired and quickly.  I'd have one conversation with them after they were late 2 times, if they were late another few times they're gone.

In reply to docwyte :

I guess the difference in being a vet and a mechanic is that the mechanic can't go to work until a car is in his stall while a vet can?   

As a supervisor I will tell you I'd have issues with it as well. It sets a precedent that may cause issues down the road.

Years ago my wife went through this when I started a new job; fortunately for us the boss valued her work and altered her schedule.  I will also tell you that 2 of the 6 employees in that group never stopped whining about her "special treatment". Again she was fortunate that the boss told the others to mind their own business.

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm a dentist.  Again, it doesn't matter if the patient isn't there yet if their appointment is for 8am, we need to be ready for them to be there at 8am, which means a show time of no later than 7:45am.  I can't go off the assumption that my patients are going to be late, therefore its ok for my employee to be late. 

Not only that, it shows general disrespect to me, my office and the rest of my staff to not be here on time and ready to go when requested. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to docwyte :

I guess the difference in being a vet and a mechanic is that the mechanic can't go to work until a car is in his stall while a vet can?   

Pretty sure the Doc is a dentist. 

And it doesn't matter. Employees that are consistently late are not going to last long. 

In reply to frenchyd :

It's 100% irrelevant if YOU don't have an issue with him being late and/or YOU accept his excuses.  You are not his boss.

Watching you get offended on behalf of someone else is comical

Steve_Jones said:

 

We are all responsible for the decisions we make and the outcome of those decision, having a "good excuse" does not change that

This cannot be stressed enough. Decisions have consequences. Period. Driving over he speed limit is a CHOICE. That choice has the potential for a poor consequence. This is how life works. 

Tom1200 said:

As a supervisor I will tell you I'd have issues with it as well. It sets a precedent that may cause issues down the road.

Years ago my wife went through this when I started a new job; fortunately for us the boss valued her work and altered her schedule.  I will also tell you that 2 of the 6 employees in that group never stopped whining about her "special treatment". Again she was fortunate that the boss told the others to mind their own business.

 

 

As someone who has parents who call if I'm as much as a minute late.  ( they have places to be too) Regardless of traffic or trains or anything. I understand  the obsession with time.

 I also understand the realities of traffic, trains,  late students,   etc. 
My schedule has me arrive at the first stop at  6:13 am.  If I arrive early. The student doesn't have to come out until 6:13. Then I'm required to wait 3 minutes. And cannot leave until 6:16    I'm allowed 30 seconds per student to load the bus.   But I cannot get anyplace early and build up time. Nor is an extra 3 minutes per stop built in  because that would add 48 minutes. 
13 suburbs,    22 stop lites, 4 sets of railroad tracks.  Plus traffic I'm expected to drive my route and arrive no earlier than 8:45 and not later than 8:50. 
  Every single day.  Today I only had 1/2 of my students so I killed 30 minutes.  No trains , no traffic. And I caught mostly green lites. 
    Other days I carry all my students and some are late coming out, catch a lot of red lites,  and a few trains.   Yet I need to be there. 
      I've learned to safely squeeze time.  Avoid issues, accidents, and delays.   The school district has me on GPS.  Plus camera's on the bus watching me and the students.  ( as does my company).  
   I'm watching all 8 mirrors for traffic, to monitor my students, check speed limits answer radio calls. ( I'm 2 minutes away )     And everything else required. 

Him being "constantly late" reminds me of a problem tenant we had back in the day. They were always late paying rent and the prior management just about tore their hair out about it. They sent default notices, complaining letters, etc but the tenant was just late enough to irritate them but paid within the drop dead dates so the lease couldn't be cancelled and the tenant evicted. When I took over management, I sat down with the tenant and asked about it. It seems most of their clientele paid on the 1st so it was hard for them to pay rent by the 1st. I said, how about we make the due date the 10th? They beamed and said that would be great. *Fifteen years* later and they have not been late on rent EVEN ONCE. We've renewed their lease several times and receive a LOT of money from them in rent, every month, on time, and we have a great relationship.

Does this apply here? maybe. maybe not. But it sure seems like a lot of noise and fury have been kicked up about something that's easily solvable by someone other than us. We have no power and no skin in this game so it's hilarious - in a way - to see people get worked up about it.

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm aware of the monitoring.....................I'm the guy who buys the school buses.

bobzilla said:

Steve_Jones said:

 

We are all responsible for the decisions we make and the outcome of those decision, having a "good excuse" does not change that

This cannot be stressed enough. Decisions have consequences. Period. Driving over he speed limit is a CHOICE. That choice has the potential for a poor consequence. This is how life works. 

You are aware of the laws of unintended consequences, since you're quoting simplistic statements.  So what choice  was his mistake?  Having children? A wife that works?   Working ?  Buying a home? Following the law regarding Covid isolation?  Driving the same speed as almost every other person on the freeway?  Driving a car within his budget?  
 
     I doubt he knew he'd be working for a person like this when he started his training. But quitting would have dire consquences for his family. 
My whole objection is the completely arbitrary way laws are enforced. Almost  Any person on that highway  that moment was going as fast or faster than he was.  

dculberson said:

Him being "constantly late" reminds me of a problem tenant we had back in the day. They were always late paying rent and the prior management just about tore their hair out about it. They sent default notices, complaining letters, etc but the tenant was just late enough to irritate them but paid within the drop dead dates so the lease couldn't be cancelled and the tenant evicted. When I took over management, I sat down with the tenant and asked about it. It seems most of their clientele paid on the 1st so it was hard for them to pay rent by the 1st. I said, how about we make the due date the 10th? They beamed and said that would be great. *Fifteen years* later and they have not been late on rent EVEN ONCE. We've renewed their lease several times and receive a LOT of money from them in rent, every month, on time, and we have a great relationship.

Does this apply here? maybe. maybe not. But it sure seems like a lot of noise and fury have been kicked up about something that's easily solvable by someone other than us. We have no power and no skin in this game so it's hilarious - in a way - to see people get worked up about it.

Excellent!!   The problem is simple.  Either day care opens up earlier or work cuts him a little slack.    Or they will lose a trained and skilled mechanic.  Something there is a real shortage of.  

frenchyd said:

bobzilla said:

Steve_Jones said:

 

We are all responsible for the decisions we make and the outcome of those decision, having a "good excuse" does not change that

This cannot be stressed enough. Decisions have consequences. Period. Driving over he speed limit is a CHOICE. That choice has the potential for a poor consequence. This is how life works. 

You are aware of the laws of unintended consequences, since you're quoting simplistic statements.  So what choice  was his mistake?  Having children? A wife that works?   Working ?  Buying a home? Following the law regarding Covid isolation?  Driving the same speed as almost every other person on the freeway?  Driving a car within his budget?  
 
     I doubt he knew he'd be working for a person like this when he started his training. But quitting would have dire consquences for his family. 

Pretty much all of those. He chose all those things. Those choices have consequences. Good or bad. Its a fact of life. Your pathetic excuses don't change that. No matter how much you throw a tantrum.

As for your second half, Break the law, pay the price. It's a choice. Its one we all make. Police cannot pull over everyone. Pulling over enough will usually ge the word out and people slow down until their short memories forget. 

frenchyd said:

Excellent!!   The problem is simple.  Either day care opens up earlier or work cuts him a little slack.    Or they will lose a trained and skilled mechanic.  Something there is a real shortage of.  

Or maybe he should sack up and go find another job. I busted flat rate for years and raised my daughters very well with it. Been there. Done that. A fast mechanic doesn't have to cower to anyone. Load your tools and go to greener pastures. A good mechanic doesn't need to be unemployed for more than a few hours if he doesn't want to  be.

In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :

bingo. Especially in the current job market. But that doesn't allow frenchy to bitch and whine

There ain't no one anywhere more employable than a good mechanic, except maybe a good RN.