Spend my money. Pick me a cheap but decent family truckster to replace an old Matrix.

DarkMonohue said:

mr2s2000elise said:

1 kid, started life in Miata MSM for 2 years. Then came kid 2. 

 

• Started life in used 2010 Mazdaspeed 3. Had it 24 months.  (sold)
• Replaced with new CT200h 12 months (worst car in the world), but fit dual rear stroller in back no problem.  (sold)
• Replaced with new TSX wagon 2012, fantastic machine - should have bought this in the first place. (still have)
• Added new 2012 Mazda5 to stable - kept it 9 years. Got the job done, but low quality vehicle. (sold)

Now LC200 HE and a RCF is what gets them around daily. 

TSX wagon is worth keeping an eye open for. Thanks for the reminder.

Please share your reasons for labeling the Mazda5 a "low quality vehicle". 

I don't know what an LC200 HE or an RCF are, but I suspect they are not contenders...

Compared to Toyota/Honda, they are a 3rd tier quality wise. Interior quality, paint quality, parts wear faster, feels cheap, NVH bad, motor not smooth (feels harsh). It got the job done, but isn't my cup of tea, quality wise. YMMV.  Been a mazda fanboi a long time (and owned 17 of them since 1987), but just like Subarus (owned a ton of them), if you go with your eyes wide open and lowered expectations, might be useful.  That said, everybody's threshold on what they will accept in life is different. To me I am over it. No amount of "zoom zoom," self justification of "fun" is worth low quality products to me any more. Good luck!

clutchsmoke said:

Acura TSX wagon. Maybe in a couple years they'll fall into your price range, but currently they're about $5k above it. 

Also, small. Too small? Well, probably not. But not significantly more useable space than the Matrix. More, but not a ton more.

Don't forget all the Minivans in SUV clothing - Highlander, Pilot/Passport, Sante Fe, Sorrento, Acadia/Traverse/Enclave/Outlook, Journey...

I rented a 2015 T&C for the 1000 mile road trip to go get SanFord. It was one of the most uncomfortable and ill-driving vehicles I have ever experienced. Every expansion joint was a thud that reverberated throughout the chassis. Every movement of the steering wheel reduced my confidence that it would actually do what I wanted if things dropped in the pot and I had to avoid something. I'm sure the 50k miles it spent in a rental fleet didn't help, but that turned me off for the newer Chrysler vans. 

The 04 Caravan we had before we bought the Venture wasn't a bad vehicle. It drove like an E150 and was kind of numb. The killer for it was the engine trouble we had and my son sticking it under the back of a truck. The Venture was night and day better. More power, better handling, smoother. 

Skipping the GM stuff, you might take a look at the Hondas as well. The Ridgeline I bought has been awesome and their van shares a fair number of components with it. 

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Thanks, that helps a lot. I suspect it would still be several notches above the cheaply built Matrix and probably at least on par with many other popular suggestions in this thread. As I have neither the budget nor the temperament to warrant too much fuss, we're going for suitability for purpose more than a "fine driving experience" purchase. IOW, it can't be terrible, but it doesn't have to stroke my ego.

My daily driver is a ratty AW11. My backup is an AMC product. Obviously,I ain't proud and I ain't trying to impress anyone. 

Toyman01 + Sized and said:

I rented a 2015 T&C for the 1000 mile road trip to go get SanFord. It was one of the most uncomfortable and ill-driving vehicles I have ever experienced. Every expansion joint was a thud that reverberated throughout the chassis. Every movement of the steering wheel reduced my confidence that it would actually do what I wanted if things dropped in the pot and I had to avoid something. I'm sure the 50k miles it spent in a rental fleet didn't help, but that turned me off for the newer Chrysler vans. 

The 04 Caravan we had before we bought the Venture wasn't a bad vehicle. It drove like an E150 and was kind of numb. The killer for it was the engine trouble we had and my son sticking it under the back of a truck. The Venture was night and day better. More power, better handling, smoother. 

Skipping the GM stuff, you might take a look at the Hondas as well. The Ridgeline I bought has been awesome and their van shares a fair number of components with it. 

 

Agree 100%. Since 2016 I have had 4 Dodge Caravan rentals. Always 1500 mile or so driving. Just did 11 days and 1600 miles in Florida 2 months ago in new caravan. Fact that they are "so cheap" to buy makes sense. Anybody who has spent time in one and is being honest, it isn't even on a sienna or oddyssey level. Heck the 05-07 Sienna/Oddy that I drive occasionally both with 200K miles, drives million times better than the Caravans that I have been renting with 1,000-10,000 mile on the ODO. 

Agree, 100%, Ridgeline is a good alternative. 

Toyman01 + Sized and said:

The Ridgeline I bought has been awesome and their van shares a fair number of components with it. 

 

The Ridgeline is really a beefed up Minivan in pickup clothing. And honestly, that is a tremendous thing. I've been finding myself searching for them quite regularly lately.

FYI, here is a gratuitous picture of our minivan being awesome. It hauled my wife and I, our toddler daughter, a stroller, luggage for a week (which is about 183 pounds of it with the way my wife packs), a wheel chair, hockey and figure skating bags, a tricycle, and a generator on this trip, and none of that was stored in the boat!

I cannot express enough how much I love minivans. 

DarkMonohue said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Thanks, that helps a lot. I suspect it would still be several notches above the cheaply built Matrix and probably at least on par with many other popular suggestions in this thread. As I have neither the budget nor the temperament to warrant too much fuss, we're going for suitability for purpose more than a "fine driving experience" purchase. IOW, it can't be terrible, but it doesn't have to stroke my ego.

My daily driver is a ratty AW11. My backup is an AMC product. Obviously,I ain't proud and I ain't trying to impress anyone. 

I understand complately.   My 8,700 mile 95 MR2 Turbo, also doesn't impress anyone, and it isn't stroking my ego, but the build quality is head and shoulders above my then newly purchased 2016 POS WRX off the dealer lot with 2 miles on the ODO. 

Everybody looks for different things from a product, and as long as it suits your needs, since you are spending your money, then all is good my friend. 

Enjoy the search 

Kia spectra wagon

Mazda 6 wagon

Protégé wagon

HHR ss

Dodge Magnum. Available with a 5.7 Hemi and/or AWD and its a big wagon.

I don't remember if you could get the 5.7 and AWD. I despise the 2.7 and 3.5 the 5.7 is the one to get

How about a Saab wagon? European style and driving dynamics with GM parts prices and availability.

9-5

9-3

In reply to STM317 :

Research that availability.  Some things yes, some things no.  As an example, try sourcing a headlamp for that 2009 Saab 9-5 you listed above.

mr2s2000elise said:

Everybody looks for different things from a product...

Well, too, you and I are likely on different planets, financially speaking. I have a feeling you paid more for your fleet than I paid for my house. So that's a factor.

Having spent decades in the MR2 world, you and I both know damn well that your 8,700 mile SW20 impresses plenty of people, or you wouldn't mention it. My AW11 has 207K, and I love it like the mangy old dog it is, despite its many and obvious flaws.

It's not that I enjoy garbage. I was raised working class and am raising a family on a single income - a reasonable income, but hardly excessive. We don't have the luxury of choice in some matters.

I hope the above does not sound harsh or abrasive or unnecessarily defensive. Just trying to establish our reality here. The "quality" that matters to us in this case has more to do with usability, durability, and longevity, and less to do with perceived quality issues like interior materials, etc.

That said, I draw a hard line at grey GM switchgear and mouse fur velour.  Hard.

mr2s2000elise said:

Toyman01 + Sized and said:

I rented a 2015 T&C for the 1000 mile road trip to go get SanFord. It was one of the most uncomfortable and ill-driving vehicles I have ever experienced. Every expansion joint was a thud that reverberated throughout the chassis. Every movement of the steering wheel reduced my confidence that it would actually do what I wanted if things dropped in the pot and I had to avoid something. I'm sure the 50k miles it spent in a rental fleet didn't help, but that turned me off for the newer Chrysler vans. 

The 04 Caravan we had before we bought the Venture wasn't a bad vehicle. It drove like an E150 and was kind of numb. The killer for it was the engine trouble we had and my son sticking it under the back of a truck. The Venture was night and day better. More power, better handling, smoother. 

Skipping the GM stuff, you might take a look at the Hondas as well. The Ridgeline I bought has been awesome and their van shares a fair number of components with it. 

 

Agree 100%. Since 2016 I have had 4 Dodge Caravan rentals. Always 1500 mile or so driving. Just did 11 days and 1600 miles in Florida 2 months ago in new caravan. Fact that they are "so cheap" to buy makes sense. Anybody who has spent time in one and is being honest, it isn't even on a sienna or oddyssey level. Heck the 05-07 Sienna/Oddy that I drive occasionally both with 200K miles, drives million times better than the Caravans that I have been renting with 1,000-10,000 mile on the ODO. 

Disagree 100%

I put some 150K miles on my '08 GC (bought at 78K, traded in at 229K) and have over 60K on my current '17 GC GT (25K to 88K).  The GT is a much nicer van to drive - way more comfortable seats.  

That said, I don't consider the driving dynamics to be the primary purpose of a van. Definitely not for the higher purchase prices of Honda or Toyota alternatives - along with the invariably higher repair costs.  I know too many people with modern Japanese vehicles to place much faith in the old trope about how reliable they are. 20+ years ago, it may have made a difference, but today?  No. I wouldn't consider them any better than a German car.  

For someone on a budget and concerned about reliability and operating costs, I cannot in good conscious recommend any Honda or Toyota product.

I recommend something (basically anything) with sliding rear doors. 

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

I agree with this statement and generally get a lot of flack for it

Ian and I are in the "pro-Mopar" camp.  For me, it was the right value, at the right time as well as the right tool for the job.  

Flex was mentioned and you too mentioned they might not be in your price range.  The first Flex was 2009.  If you go back that old and keep it just fwd and w/o awd the prices can be reasonable.  

But, here's the GRM tip:...Ford Taurus X.  

This is the Ford Flex, sold from 2009-2019:

It was the restyled, visually improved, version of the Ford Taurus X (2007-09)

The Ford Taurus X was the much mechanically improved Ford Freestyle (2005-07)

Avoid the Freestyle at all cost.  In both fwd and awd it has a cvt trans that is sure to fail.  With the move to the Taurus X, the car went from 3.0L CVT to 3.5L and traditional 6 speed auto trans.  For the Flex, the body was "stylized" but the drivetrain and chassis remained the same. 

Go looking for a Taurus X.  It is a very much overlooked model that lives in the negative shadow of its body-mate, the Freestyle, but is without many of the shortcomings of the Freestyle.  It's the uglier (and cheaper but not that uglier) Ford Flex but with all the same functionality.

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

That said, I don't consider the driving dynamics to be the primary purpose of a van. Definitely not for the higher purchase prices of Honda or Toyota alternatives - along with the invariably higher repair costs.  I know too many people with modern Japanese vehicles to place much faith in the old trope about how reliable they are. 20+ years ago, it may have made a difference, but today?  No. I wouldn't consider them any better than a German car.  

For someone on a budget and concerned about reliability and operating costs, I cannot in good conscious recommend any Honda or Toyota product.

I can understand why you would feel that way. The newer a car gets, the more complicated it becomes, and the more likely it is to warrant a shop visit for the average owner. One key difference is that I'm more familiar with, and more comfortable working on, Toyota and similar products. To some degree, it's the devil I know.

Neighbor lady across the street traded in her Oddyssey.  Said the Honda was giving her electrical trouble. So she replaced it with some big Volkswagen SUV...

In reply to John Welsh :

John, you're an absolute wealth of information. Many thanks.  I might actually get away with that if I discreetly peel the Taurus nameplates off before I present it to my wife.

Just two quickly found samples to compare

2008 TaurusX

2011 Flex

My son has a 100k mile 2013 Flex that his family love. 

DarkMonohue said:

In reply to John Welsh :

John, you're an absolute wealth of information. Many thanks.  I might actually get away with that if I discreetly peel the Taurus nameplates off before I present it to my wife.

I knew I had written similar words about the Taurus X before and I found the link:

In this thread, the last post of page 1 is about the stripper version of the Grand Caravan known as the American Value Package and page 2 is about Taurus X.

Live the minivan life.   I've found happy passengers are more important than a happy driver...especially when the "driver" has a fun backup car(s).  I tried to find a good compromise w/my VW Alltrack (AWD, manual transmission, decent size storage & a rooftop box + 30mpg)...but SWMBO and Kid still prefer our 2008 Honda Odyssey 10/10 times. Since you need AWD, go with a mopar or Toyota Sienna.  Both have plenty of power, tons of storage and power sliding doors are convenient for loading/unloading kids.  As your kid gets older you'll appreciate the ability to bring your family + 4 or 5  of the kiddo's friends along with you.

Hoondavan said:

Live the minivan life.   I've found happy passengers are more important than a happy driver...especially when the "driver" has a fun backup car(s).  I tried to find a good compromise w/my VW Alltrack (AWD, manual transmission, decent size storage & a rooftop box + 30mpg)...but SWMBO and Kid still prefer our 2008 Honda Odyssey 10/10 times. Since you need AWD, go with a mopar or Toyota Sienna.  Both have plenty of power, tons of storage and power sliding doors are convenient for loading/unloading kids.  As your kid gets older you'll appreciate the ability to bring your family + 4 or 5  of the kiddo's friends along with you.

Exactly! And the first time your 4 year old cracks the inside door handle in the target parking lot during a gust of wind that catches your big heavy long door and slams it into the new mercedes you parked next to, you'll really wish you got a car with sliding doors.

Or when your hands are full of stuff and the side of the car is caked in winter road slime (and so is the ground) and you don't have a button on your key fob to just push through your pants pocket and the door magically opens, you'll really wish you got a car with sliding doors. 

I really can't say enough about how key sliding rear doors are for a family hauler, especially of young ones. 

John Welsh said:

In this thread, the last post of page 1 is about the stripper version of the Grand Caravan known as the American Value Package and page 2 is about Taurus X.

American Value... ecch.  That sends up all kinds of red flags.  Coming from an industry where "value engineering" means stripping out any features and functions the law doesn't require and replacing the good stuff you specified with something significantly cheaper and not nearly as good, that's scary.  Almost sounds like a Wal-Mart special edition.  Thanks for the warning.

And you've also shown me that I may break my "no VW garbage" rule, but only if that VW garbage is a Dodge.

I think I'm going to go lie down.

Hoondavan said:

Live the minivan life.   I've found happy passengers are more important than a happy driver...especially when the "driver" has a fun backup car(s).  I tried to find a good compromise w/my VW Alltrack (AWD, manual transmission, decent size storage & a rooftop box + 30mpg)...but SWMBO and Kid still prefer our 2008 Honda Odyssey 10/10 times. Since you need AWD, go with a mopar or Toyota Sienna.  Both have plenty of power, tons of storage and power sliding doors are convenient for loading/unloading kids.  As your kid gets older you'll appreciate the ability to bring your family + 4 or 5  of the kiddo's friends along with you.

Hearing you loud and clear on this one.  It's all a damned strange concept to me, since neither my wife nor I grew up surrounded by tons of other people - we are both relatively introverted people from quiet (bordlerine reclusive) families, and not drawn to group settings or "fun" activities that involve transporting a whole mess of somebody else's rodents around.  But I do appreciate the practicality of the van configuration, even if we're only toting our own.

We don't need AWD.  We have it, and it's come in handy, but it's not a requirement.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Exactly! And the first time your 4 year old cracks the inside door handle in the target parking lot during a gust of wind that catches your big heavy long door and slams it into the new mercedes you parked next to, you'll really wish you got a car with sliding doors.

Or when your hands are full of stuff and the side of the car is caked in winter road slime (and so is the ground) and you don't have a button on your key fob to just push through your pants pocket and the door magically opens, you'll really wish you got a car with sliding doors. 

I really can't say enough about how key sliding rear doors are for a family hauler, especially of young ones. 

Had to chuckle.  I'm the guy who parks at the end of the parking lot.  If I park next to a car, the car is on my side.  But it's a fair point.  Door dings aside, the sliding door has its merits.

Dude, I've never even had keyless entry, let alone touchless smart key wizardry.  We have nowhere to go but up!