Let me try this again
My point is, I'm doing the same stuff I have always done. I never have stood for discrimination and I never will.
I don't think yelling at everyone, or fighting hate with more hate is the way. I think hate needs to be eradicated in a non emotional, inevitable, never ending extermination.
I also don't think I need to say that I'm doing that all the time. My actions weigh heavier than my words.
Does that make sense?
In reply to tuna55 :
I can only speak about my experiences in an Ontario school, but I suspect it may hold true in a broader community. We teach racism incorrectly. And that has led to much confusion about the term that lends itself to people not seeing the issue. We teach racism as an individual action against a person who is different. But really what we need to teach is systemic and institutionalized racism -- and that because we are all products of that system, it is likely we are racist even if we don't intend that in any matter at all.
Teach your children to listen and understand that they may be called out as racist by someone who is oppressed or marginalized. If they are lucky, that person will take the time to explain why -- which is a huge amount of emotionalenergy and labour. Don't teach your children to reject the word without consideration of the why. It's tough. Really tough. But worth it.
I would be happy to have a beer. I'd even do a ZOOM beer if you'd like to do this virtually. Anyone can join me.
Stampie (FS) said:When I signed up to serve I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. One part of that Constitution is Freedom of Speech. That applies to those I agree with and disagree with.
This exactly. If more people would remember this things would be a lot better.
The Southern Poverty Law Center is rated 4/4 by Charity Navigator, among the top charities in the U.S. They could be more efficient with their funds, but overall they get high marks for accountability and transparency. Their mission is at odds with certain interests and media platforms, so it's not surprising that they are a popular punching bag in certain circles.
I would encourage readers to do their own research and draw their own conclusions. Even better, call or e-mail the charity yourself and ask them questions. As is typically the case, the loudest opinions in this thread appear to be the least informed.
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4482
What people need to do right now is turn down the volume.
My wife is a woman of color and also dislikes the SPLC but the folks at GRM felt compelled to do something; their heart is in the right place.
There's a great line from an Austin Powers movie "what I can't stand is people who are intolerant for other peoples cultures and the Dutch, I hate the Dutch".
Not gonna read the whole thread, just say two things.
1) I generally support the side of level headedness, kindness, tolerance, etc.
2) If a family member was in such dire straits that they needed to ask me for money, and I gave it to them not expecting to be repaid, then I found out they were donating money to someone else who probably isn't going hungry, I'd be really pissed.
I hope GRM has their finances in order 'cause I don't think I'll be making any donations without some form of goods in return. Things like patreon, kickstarter, gofundme, etc. have (imo) lead to real shaky attitudes where the people asking for money frequently have more than the people they're asking it from. Poor taste in my eyes
Snowdoggie said:You would think from the reaction of some of the people around here that money was donated to the Church of Satan.
What's wrong with the Church of Satan? That's a serious question.
ZOO (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to tuna55 :
I can only speak about my experiences in an Ontario school, but I suspect it may hold true in a broader community. We teach racism incorrectly. And that has led to much confusion about the term that lends itself to people not seeing the issue. We teach racism as an individual action against a person who is different. But really what we need to teach is systemic and institutionalized racism -- and that because we are all products of that system, it is likely we are racist even if we don't intend that in any matter at all.
Teach your children to listen and understand that they may be called out as racist by someone who is oppressed or marginalized. If they are lucky, that person will take the time to explain why -- which is a huge amount of emotionalenergy and labour. Don't teach your children to reject the word without consideration of the why. It's tough. Really tough. But worth it.
I would be happy to have a beer. I'd even do a ZOOM beer if you'd like to do this virtually. Anyone can join me.
Sorry man, no Zoom. I've had enough Zoom to last me a long time. It's as I said though, our hearts are both in roughly the same place but our axioms are very different.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I don't agree with everything you said, but I can appreciate your levelheaded and calm dissent.
I hope that when Margie feels better she has a better response than "Shut up racist."
In the end I hope that we can all stay together based on the common passion for Motorsports and machines rather than being divided by the societal pressures.
Just going to post this again:
Tom Suddard said:I feel the need to set the record straight on one thing:
Yes, a few months ago, going into the pandemic, we posted that the future was extremely uncertain and your support mattered more than ever. We said in this post:
Put simply, we face an existential threat unless you #SupportMotorsport and support us, too. We’d like to still be a part of the motorsports world when it emerges from this crisis in a few months, but we’re not going to be unless you support us any way you can.
And you all supported us more than ever. You directly kept us going, and it did and still does mean the world to us. And since that post, well, the world opened back up again (whether or not it should have is a discussion for another thread). Because of your support, we were as strong as ever when it opened. Advertising resumed. Financially-speaking, things got better. You'll also notice that we didn't make a follow-up post, ask for more money, or even mention Patreon again aside from the links at the bottom of articles for those who like what they're reading. You saved us, and now we're here. Thank you.
That was posted April 4, GRM doesn't carry a 2 month reserve?
Sorry if it's been posted already, but what was the donation amount anyway?
Having been given a "strike" against me for making a slightly right-wing comment, against Hillary if I remember correctly, on a thread that was getting all politically wonky and slightly left wing I pretty much figured out where the owner's political opinions reside a while back. So I stayed off political threads because I am here for the car stuff anyway.
But this donation does surprise me considering SPLC has a lot of baggage politically and published abuses of women and use of donations. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/08/17/southern-poverty-law-center-hate-groups-scam-column/2022301001/
I am a magazine subscriber because I like to read about the topics published.
I am not a forum donator because of that strike against me. I realize this opinion may get me two more strikes and expulsion from the group. If that happens I'll just let my subscription run out...
In reply to tremm :
As previously posted, we donated our June Facebook marketing budget instead of spending it with Facebook.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/03/29/us/splc-leadership-crisis/index.html
from very left leaning CNN
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2022301001
USA today
New Yorker
And for the record, I said well intentioned and misguided. I will stick to that.
I'm not sure if I should expand on murder by the police and racism and how I find this country more racist everyday. Not taking any political side, but there are clearly people labeling, calling and making everything racist in order to turn profits and gain votes. I cannot support that, even indirectly.
I feel as if my time serving this country, my grandfathers death serving this country and the lives of all that served are being spat upon and dishonored. All the while I'm being told it's a "net good."
No, giving to a law firm that says one thing, and does very different things, is not a net benefit to anyone. SPLC is in fact fanning the flames of racism making the horrible things we see today possible. Keep following in misguided belief with a good heart, and you will find yourself more confused as to why all this is happening and thinking you "must" do something else.
They continue to fan the flames by claiming anyone that doesn't agree with their far left sentiments is a racist hate group.
I'm really unhappy about this, and for the record I hate both the extreme left and extreme right and love this country and sll the people in the middle. Stay towards the middle and don't let yourself be swayed by the pretty words and ideas of the extremes. SPLC is very extreme.
And in case you are wondering why I say they are fanning the flames. Remember Dees said they are just selling a product? Well they sell racism and hate, take you pick.
What happened to George Floyd was a horrific murder caught on camera. Donating to the SPLC does not help. It just ensures that plenty of pallets of bricks and paymemts will be available to burn down our cities and kill those who are trying to protect their homes, businesses, familes and themselves. The extreme left and right both want racial divide and violence which are not natural to the US or our values. Donating to either cause just adds to their resources.
I live in Montgomery, +1000
Tom Suddard said:In reply to tremm :
As previously posted, we donated our June Facebook marketing budget instead of spending it with Facebook.
Honestly, the fact that you withheld from FB makes me as happy as the donation.
$50? $500? I don't know anything about facebook marketing costs
I am all for GRM speaking their mind, using their medium to voice their concerns, it is what makes this country great. The ability to have freedom of speech, freedom of press, the right to assembly, and so on. Look at the oppression that is happening in Hong Kong, the widespread racism in Guangzhou China, the state filtering and controlling internet content, and all the media outlets, one can quickly realize that we truly live in a great country. We need to work together instead to resolve difficult issues as such instead of divided.
What am I not okay with? GRM repeatedly asking for donations to keep them afloat during these tumultuous times, pulling on our heartstrings as if they might have to close their doors, only to turn around and make a donation to a not so good organization. You can do whatever you'd like with your capital overhead; again its the great part of this country, but don't give us some bullE36 M3 sob story asking for charitable contributions anymore. I feel played. I could have put that donation money towards my kid's college fund, instead I tried helping a business out that has provided me an escape from reality every now and then, that gave me hope and aspirations of getting on track, that has an amazing community that is always willing to help and provide positive feedback to questions.
I know you guys are better than this, it's disappointing.
/r
Rowdy_Trickle said:I am all for GRM speaking their mind, using their medium to voice their concerns, it is what makes this country great. The ability to have freedom of speech, freedom of press, the right to assembly, and so on. Look at the oppression that is happening in Hong Kong, the widespread racism in Guangzhou China, the state filtering and controlling internet content, and all the media outlets, one can quickly realize that we truly live in a great country. We need to work together instead to resolve difficult issues as such instead of divided.
What am I not okay with? GRM repeatedly asking for donations to keep them afloat during these tumultuous times, pulling on our heartstrings as if they might have to close their doors, only to turn around and make a donation to a not so good organization. You can do whatever you'd like with your capital overhead; again its the great part of this country, but don't give us some bullE36 M3 sob story asking for charitable contributions anymore. I feel played. I could have put that donation money towards my kid's college fund, instead I tried helping a business out that has provided me an escape from reality every now and then, that gave me hope and aspirations of getting on track, that has an amazing community that is always willing to help and provide positive feedback to questions.
I know you guys are better than this, it's disappointing.
/r
First post. Signed up today.
We're not going to publicly share our donation amount.
If it's $1, we'll be attacked for not donating enough and making empty promises.
If it's $100,000, we'll be attacked for overspending and stealing from all of the people who paid us for goods and services rendered.
The answer is between those two numbers, and the amount is not relevant to this discussion. We want to focus on the statement.
I don't see this as political. Silence (or neutrality, if you'd prefer,) helps the oppressor, never the oppressed, making this a humanitarian issue at its core. What happened to George Floyd was racist. Jim Crow never died, he just went on living in people's minds.
And I have to think that the majority of you who dissent with the donation or indeed the initial post of solidarity do so with the best intentions, but trust me when I say it doesn't read well. Don't think for a minute that the entire staff of MM Inc. just hastily came to this decision, either. So thank you, Tim, Marjorie, Tom, Katie, David, J.G, Nancy, Kevin, Nicole, Colin, Chris, Sarah and Robin.
But it's all a moot point: The money has been given, and the post stands. Either you make peace with it and we move forward together, or you quietly leave the party.
I'm very late to this party, but I thought I'd share a story I try to forget, but which this thread made me think of.
About ten years ago I was living in a very rural area in a state pretty far south of the Mason Dixon line. One day I was talking to a neighbor at his house, when a friend of the neighbor's came over. It was a warm day, so we were all of us in short sleeves, and I happened to notice that the friend had a Swastika tattoo on one of his arms. I was shocked- literally repulsed. I had never, ever seen such a thing in real life. I knew, intuitively, that there were people like that, but I guess mentally I just sort of "blocked" them from existence.
But now, here was this real life, Swastika-tattoo'd fellow standing within arm's reach of me. I had been talking with the neighbor about something unrelated, and honestly forget why the conversation turned but the neighbor's friend said something that opened up a vaguely racist topic of conversation. Coupled with the tattoo, it didn't take much math to add up the situation in my head.
I happened to glance down at the tattoo'd guy's feet and saw that he was wearing (and I am not making this up) Nike 'Air Jordan' sneakers. After some particularly derogatory remark about 'Blacks' from him, I asked him, in as neutral a tone as I could muster, why he was wearing sneakers marketed by a successful black man. Stunned, he stared at me, probably trying to size me up. He quickly got agitated, angry, and took a stance that said "I am going to punch you right in the face right now." He wasn't appreciably larger than I was, and I figured I was going to fight back- hard.
As it happened, the neighbor, who WAS appreciably larger than both of us, stepped in between us and suggested I go home. Seeing that it was his property, I respected his request, and left. That's about the closest I've ever come to putting my own well-being on the line for that cause like that.
I share that story not to pat myself on the back as some sort of anti-racism warrior, but to provide some background on my convictions. Donating to a cause doesn't move the meter. Everyday actions do. Collectively, the attitude I see a lot of seems to be laziness- we don't want to actually DO anything to help a certain cause either way, so we'll just donate money to some people who claim they will do something. Throw money at the problem. I recognize most of us are not in the position to do big exciting things like a multi-million dollar organization seems to be, so we think our $10 or $20 or whatever is "good enough". I disagree with that notion. I think taking the time to look at our own actions, and how we conduct our lives, and trying to do better, will do a lot more to help society as a whole than simply writing checks.
I disagree with the decision to donate to the SLPC. Not only because I disagree with the actions of the organization, but because I think that money (some of which came from me, as a Forum Supporter) would be better used by GRM to do GRM's mission. There is a distinction, I think, between money exchanged for goods and services, and a donation. I pay for a subscription to the magazine, and I get, in exchange, reading material. What GRM does with my subscription fee is their business. But Forum Support is different, and to turn around and support political causes while requesting financial help gives the wrong impression.
In light of recent events, I'm glad GRM's balance sheet is doing better again, so it sounds like additional support and donations are no longer needed.
I think a donation to an organization that *tries* to crusade for social justice is a decent gesture in these times. I don't feel bad that any donation on my part went there, as it could have been used for much worse things and never disclosed.
Don't forget that sometimes when you buy toilet paper you're donating to the Koch empire and their agenda. Still gotta wipe.
I am not a supporter of PETA. I disagree with their views on draft horses in New York City. I disagree with their views on the Iditarod. I actually ran dog teams in Colorado so I would be one of their targets as far as recreational mushing. And you guys from the "Berkin Mice" thread don't want to know what PETA thinks about your pest control efforts. I think they are a bit nutty. I have no idea what they do with their donations. Buy blood to throw on people's mink coats, maybe? I have been in dog rescue for over 25 years and assisted in founding three husky rescue groups including one of the largest dog rescue groups in Dallas, a group that has raised almost a million dollars since they started and has rescued close to 2,000 huskies.
But if GRM decided to give a big donation to PETA, I would just roll my eyes and move on to the model car thread. I don't think I would get upset, pound the table, call people names and threaten to quit the board. I might actually go home and make a donation to Petfinder, Wally's Cocker Spaniel Group or my own rescue group. Why all the emotion about the SPLC?
Im truly sorry that what was meant to be an open, honest donation in a time of crisis has become an issue in and of itself.
Again, thank you GRM staff for what you are doing.
I am sorry some people have decided to leave.
Let's all hold hands and move on.
I think this thread should be locked, but that might create cries of conspiracy.
I firmly support GRMs use of money I donated (and continue to donate) to the cause. We aren't in a time of " i don't like your guy or don't care for that stance on things".
We're living through an existential crisis time for our country and declaring oneself apolitical just isn't going to fly any longer. People need to have the conviction of their beliefs and to ignore that much of their nature isn't helping, it just emboldens those who are standing on the wrong side of history.
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