Subaru EJ251 - fact or fiction, not blown or overblown

Have a lead on a 2001 outback, asking price is 600. Looking to double the HP in my Kelmark GT (air cooled 1600cc currently)

Some have cautioned me on head gasket and over heating issues on the 2.5 liter motors and said to go with the EJ22. I believe this car has the EJ251.

From wikipedia, where everything is 100% more true than anything else on the web, except here of course, this is fact. I did some searching here and found a post about EJs for a couple years ago and it seemed to confirm this also.

Is this still the case ?

Also found a 2003 for 1000, with an oil leak, ad states "may need valve cover gasket". Guessing it may be the head gasket based on wiki and what I read in the other post, this one is a bit nicer with leather interior, its 1K, but I might recoup more on the part out of the remainder, then again, from the pictures, I may feel guilty about tearing it apart.

Any additional info appropriated, Steve

Not all 2.5L Subaru's are the same:

• 2.5L DOHC (EJ25D) - the most loathed - when they leak, they leak internally and boom.
• 2.5L SOHC (EJ251 and EJ253) - the only difference is MAP vs MAF. They leak but normally externally. Some will go on leaking forever. Others won't!
• 2.5L SOHC (EJ252) - only used on 00/01 Leggies and Outbacks with 5MT. Same issues as the EJ251 and EJ253.
• 2.5L DOHC (EJ254) - 05+ engines. They will still likely leak at some point.

Most have started leaking by 100k miles. If the car is well past that and the HG's were fixed properly, they quite often never leak again. I had a EJ25D that had over 412k kms on it when I sold it and it never leaked a drop while I owned it.

It is quite possible that it is a valve cover gasket leak. My EJ205 parts motor has one. Crawl under the car and look. The HG's and valve cover gaskets are well separated with the valve cover gasket only an inch or so from the edge of the motor. The HG's are way further down the cylinder.

If it is HG's get a good multi-layer HG and fix them. Then they can be damn good cars.

How many miles on each of them?

Brett_Murphy wrote: How many miles on each of them?

The 2001 is unknown at this time it was not in the ad. The 2003 has 240000.

Steve.

lrrs wrote: Also found a 2003 for 1000, with an oil leak, ad states "may need valve cover gasket". Guessing it may be the head gasket

i see a lot of ads claiming valve cove gasket leaks and I usually assume its actually the head gasket.

Also which subaru engine is it that has the plastic cam gears that like to break and cause valve-piston relations? i thought it was one of the 2.5 variants

Keeping in mind that I know nothing of subarus, if it runs good and isnt knocking, but has leaky gaskets, shouldnt this be considered no big deal since the engine is being swapped? I mean if its going to be out of the donor car pit a full engine gasket kit in before it gets installed in its new home. Or is there something that I dont know that makes that impractical?

I'd say EJ251, as long as you don't try to add boost, head gasket could easily be fine. Valve cover gaskets on these aren't uncommon.

If you're doing an engine swap, you could get crazy and get a 2.5 block and put 2.2 heads on it. That way you wind up with a non-interference engine that makes good power.

What is your general location?

lrrs wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: How many miles on each of them?

The 2001 is unknown at this time it was not in the ad. The 2003 has 240000. Steve.

I doubt that an engine with 240k miles is still on it's original HG's.

edizzle89 wrote: i see a lot of ads claiming valve cove gasket leaks and I usually assume its actually the head gasket.

Easy to tell - get seller to take a picture of the leak location and email it to you or if you are local go look.

Brett_Murphy wrote: If you're doing an engine swap, you could get crazy and get a 2.5 block and put 2.2 heads on it. That way you wind up with a non-interference engine that makes good power. What is your general location?

For starters, I just want to get a running subaru engine in the car, going non-interference sounds really good. I am in Rochester NH.

Steve

If you're yanking the engine for a swap, couldn't/shouldn't you replace the head gaskets anyway?

http://www.ner.org/forums/topic/free-subaru-2-2l-motor/

To enable your 2.5/2.2 hybrid plans.

I don't know anything about Subaru motors, but I do lurk message boards for good deals on the regular.

NMNA, don't know if he still has it, blah blah blah

Interference should not be an issue either if you change the timing belt during the swap.

Valve covers do leak. I fixed my right side on the 3rd try and I see the left is weeping. The oil sits there all the time just waiting to leak, then land on the exhaust, burn and stink.

The 2.2l has a great rep for reliability but they were last made in 2001 and will be difficult to find. They are down 25-30hp from the 2.5l. I had a 25D in a Legacy, its HG leaked at 70k miles and spun rods at 90k miles. The replacement motor burned oil at about 1 litre/500km. YMMV.

cmcgregor wrote: To enable your 2.5/2.2 hybrid plans.

Thanks ! Email sent, waiting on a reply.

PS: I will let my GF know how helpful you where. 8o)

Amy wrote: If you're yanking the engine for a swap, couldn't/shouldn't you replace the head gaskets anyway?

Thank you. The engine is out..........and if the history is unknown or it's already weeping, change the damn things. One potential problem solved.

Once the engine is out, Subaru head gaskets are easy.

Why these engines? Those seem really high mileage for the price.

Get a $350 microsquirt an a jdm ej20 twin turbo. Last I looked they were around $500.

Just get the 2.5L, you'll like the extra HP and the head gasket fix is a one time and done deal nowadays.
The Subaru Fel-Pro head gasket sets are stupid cheap right now on Rockauto. Someone is closing them out and I bought two for $68 ea. (These used to be $180 a few years ago) Fel-Pro makes the Permatorque MLS - Multi Layer Steel, which is what you want.
I usually have a machine show completely redo the heads with a pressure test, resurface and valve job. They come back looking better than new and it runs me about $175 locally. Have the shop install the new valve stem seals, cam seals & cam caps from that head gasket kit.
Don't forget to adjust the valves when they come back. Its a simple jam nut set-up above the valve and its easy to do.

I have a rust-free 2.2 Impreza for sale in the 2015 classifieds

Got my eye on 2 legacy's with ej22s, both have about 130K on the clock.

One in Maine a 1995, 13 miles away, looked at it, starts runs, slight knock when cold that goes away after 3-4 minutes, (piston slap ?) check engine light on, auto trans, believed to be leaking, owner stated that on its last trip upon rolling into the drive way something started leaking something. Rad has fluid, oil and breaks feel fine and levels looked good, hence the trans thought. Dirt/grass drive way, and no signs of recent leaking so I could not pin it down. Been in the family since 2002, they don't know if the t belt has ever been changed. Asking 600, said they would take five. Did not drive, not registered and did not want to take the chance it was the brakes just to be safe. Steel wheels and hupcaps. Not much resalable on this one. http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/5244306269.html

One in Rochester NH, looking at it tomorrow, owner states brakes locked due to sitting, and need to wiggle wires under dash to start, and battery needs a charge, hence the looking at it tomorrow. Its a stick. Clutch is bad, and something about the oil pan and cam seals, but it is believed the T Belt has been changed, stated there was something written under the hood. Factory Aluminum rims and stated good tires, not having scene it, not sure if there is anything else with value other than the engine which I need. http://nh.craigslist.org/pts/5256392834.html

Thoughts?

Both will need a tow, any one in the Rochester NH area want to make a couple bucks if I pull the trigger on either of these ?

gearheadmb wrote: Keeping in mind that I know nothing of subarus, if it runs good and isnt knocking, but has leaky gaskets, shouldnt this be considered no big deal since the engine is being swapped?

It's no big deal. Heck, it's no big deal if the engine is staying in the Subaru. Changing the head gaskets is simple but tedious, and doesn't really require any special tools other than a torque wrench, a cherrypicker and engine stand, and a 17mm (I think) 12-point socket for the head bolts.

They leak externally, I've only seen two leak coolant internally and they were both SOHC. But then probably 95-99% of the 2.5s out there are SOHC.

Also, 2.5s all knock. Short rods, short piston height, and long stroke mean the pistons get slappy long before the actual engine is worn out. A 200k+ engine can sound absolutely frightful when cold.

You should be able to find a plethora of low mileage, rusty Subaru engine donors in New England. Keep looking.

Fun anecdote, I've got a friend with a NA 2.5 car, he's had the felpro gasket set sitting on a shelf for about 2 years now. He's put about 40k on it, just dumping oil in it due to not having the time or place simultaneously to deal with it.

It's an easy job once you have the motor out of the car, which is an easy job.

For what it's worth, my EJ251 has a leaking head gasket and I just keep it topped up with oil. It's just about to roll over the 305,000km mark and it's probably been leaking for years.

The way I look at it is that if the engine is coming out, bad ideas are then possible. It's best for everyone if the engine stays where it is.

Head gasket leaks in the EJ25 DOHC ("EJ25D") are bad news, though: you'll get milkshake, and then knocks. The DOHC leaks internally, SOHC externally. The dealership also won't give you steel EJ25D head gaskets if you order new ones; you will have to order turbo head gaskets in order to get steel gaskets. As a result of this many EJ25Ds that have had their head gaskets done probably need their head gaskets done again.

Also, valve cover gaskets are a pain in the butt and I refuse to believe anyone who has done them without making a worse leak afterward.