subaru FB25 engine interchange

ok.  I have both the 2011 and 2015 engines broken down to the point of splitting the cases.  I do see differences in the upper oil pans but nothing that should keep me from using the 2011 upper oil pan on the 2015 engine.  Of course the 2011 does not have the low oil switch and wire and it does not have the extra coolant outlet.  The 2015 upper oil pan has a couple additional webbing within.  I even test fitted the 2011 on the 2015 engine - no problems.

I verified the head gaskets from both engines are the same - identical.  The piston tops may be a wee bit different.  I will check that also.  Heads seem to be the same.

Now that the breakdown is complete, I will clean parts and then look real close at heads, cams, upper oil pan, oil pan, etc to make sure all 2011 parts will work correctly on the 2015 short block.

More to come...

In reply to Skenton :

The engine was out of a 2017 Forester PZEV/CVT w/ 36k on it.

I used the Serp Belt adapter as shown above.

I removed Valve covers and installed valve covers from the old engine. 

I removed Coolant crossover and EGR system and used those components from old engine.

I used Knock Sensor from old engine and installed in 2011 location, not the 2017 location.

Removed crank sensor AND bracket and used those components from old engine

Removed flexplate and adapters and used from the old engine.

Removed timing cover and swapped cam trigger wheels. Note: do not swap from side to side. Car will not start.

Used 2017 timing cover

Used cam sensors from old engine.

Did not purchase any seals. I did use Fujibond.

At this point, a month later and the my 16 year old son is driving (and beating) this car. Very happy with swap.

CEL is on due to intake solenoids. I need to remedy that. Will hopefully take care of that in the next couple weeks.

Thanks, Brian

In reply to bpwaldner :

Great summary, thanks.

Since you swapped valve covers I assume you used the coils (and of course wiring harness) from the old engine too?

Which fuel injectors did you use? How did you deal with the extra coolant port on the upper oil pan?

OK.  I have the 2011 Forester upper oil pan, oil pan, both heads, and both cam carriers installed on the 2015 Outback engine.  No problems.  Bolts are all correct length, head gaskets are the same between 2015 and 2011 engines.  Timing set, valve covers, and injectors are next.  I have the coolant pipe up at the house getting paint.  This is the pipe that is notorious for rusting through and springing a leak.  There was some rust on it... I have rust  encapsulator on it and a coat of Rustoleum.

In reply to SubieKurt :

To be clear, you moved the complete 2011 cam+carrier assembly intact instead of putting the 2011 cam reluctors on the 2015 cams?

To anybody who's swapping their FB25 first gen to the next gen FB25, I took a leap of faith and it turned out flawlessly.

Here's what I did:

I bought an adapter plate set from one of the contributors before with a idler wheel bracket and I put it on the 2017 Legacy engine I bought.  It was a fairly easy swap over of everything.  The install was extremely smooth with no problems at all.  Just swapped everything from old engine to new engines - sensors, cam wheels, wiring harness, cross over pipe, etc.  I bought some compression fittings at the hardware store and extended the EGR pipe.  After everything was installed and I started my Subie, it started right away with no alarms, no nothing.  It drives good and I love the extra couple horse power you get. Feels like a new car.

I just wanted to say thanks to Joe for the help with this conversion.

Happy wrenching!

Matt

Hello everyone, New guy here. sorry to open this topic how many years later. Lol. I've been reading the threads because I have the same issue. This is my old engine. Can I use the same harness for the fb25? Do I need to put old sensors to the new engine? It seems that the wiring harness are not the same. If not what harness should I get? Do I need to replace all the harness??

Thanks in advance. 

Engine from Japan right hand drive wiring.

I really suggest taking the time to read the whole thread (really). There is a ton of info in it which will answer most if not all of your questions.

In short, you have to use the old wiring harness and sensors to get the newer engine to talk to the old engine computer in the car. Don't even think about trying to swap the computers between years. Various other engine parts will also need to be swapped over too. Think of the newer engine as a long block instead of a complete motor.

As I recall those JDM engines have different accessories than the US market so you should check things like the alternator carefully if you are thinking about using them. Actually in this case the newer enginer may be more like a short block.

The good news is this is still an active thread and lots of folks have had success swapping the FB25 engines.

Good luck. If you have more questions things like model and year of your vehicle and donor would help. There are differences that need to be taken unto account.

Thank you so much for the reply sorry but some parts got me confused. 2011 Subaru Outback is my donor car. What I got from Japan motors from LA they gave me a 47k miles  ($1800 + 100 delivery) 2012 Outback engine BE25 so maybe it's the same as fb25. I'm not really sure but no timing belt covers. As of the moment. The engine is already mounted. I also bought low miles cvt transmission because I got this car with a broken transmission 2 months later cylinder 2 misfire. Done everything valve adjust, injectors, spark plugs and coils. 150 psi the rest was 180 psi. I appreciate this a lot! 

Also please enlighten me what to do with the ac compressor. Thank you so much

no power steering pump on the new engine.

I refer to the car "donating" a working engine as the "donor vehicle "

The AC can be unbolted and set to one side under the hood in battery well with lines attached and pressurized. The bracket may be different on the donor requiring you to swap bracket from old engine.

The power steering can be unbolted and set to other side by wheel well with lines attached and still filled with oil

The 2011-2013 engines were the same on Forester and very similar to 2013-2014  Outback/Legacy which is what most people use because Forester engines are expensive here state side. Sounds like you got a good JDM deal.

My 2011 has the conventional auto transmission. I did not know the CVT was available before 2014? There are coolant system changes for the CVT I believe.

FYI, BE25 is the head casting number not the engine type. Searching will show which years FB25 used that casting.

Skenton said:

I did not know the CVT was available before 2014? There are coolant system changes for the CVT I believe.

If I recall correctly, the Outback had an optional CVT mated to the FB25 in the 2010-2014 model years, but the Forester only came with the 4AT/5MT. The Forester got the CVT on the SJ generation-current (2014-2024+). I don't know if the Outback engine itself is different than the Forester's from the same time period.

In reply to smashwinger :

There are differences in the engines, primarily concerning when update were incorporated. The biggest in my opinion was the change to the intake manifold with incompatible port shapes and the TGV direction reversal. Followed by the coolant system/EGR changes for the CVT. Fortunately the bolt on patterns stayed the same allowing interchange of old and new parts in most cases.

I was able to put most of the sensors but I have some left. 

I'm also wondering what needs to be done in here.

Thank you in advance.

this was from my old engine which is a 2011 timing belt and the new one is 2012(according to Japan Motors) a timing chain. 
 

In reply to Skenton :

Correction FB25.. Need to wear glasses soon.. lol

In reply to Skenton :

When I changed my transmission I was hoping for a non cvt lol coz they are a lot cheaper. It says Jerry at the back of my car. Not pzef. No idea what Jerry means.

Well, for starters the FB25 is always timing chain. I wonder what your old engine is? FA25 turbo? Older EJ? Six cylinder? That probably explains the sensors issues. Not sure what to recommend yet.

The cam rotor/phasers/reluctors on the FB25 changed in later years, one having notches and the other tabs, such as my 2015 Legacy donor engine and 2011 Forester vehicle, and need to be swapped from the old to new engine to be compatible with the ECM computer and cam sensors in the old timing cover which is typically also moved to deal with the missing power steeering pully from newer vehicles with electric power steering. However for a 2012 FB25 and a 2011 vehicle I doubt you need to pull the timing cover and do any work in there.

Looking back at all your post I think I see the problem. Forester was the first car to get the FB25, starting in 2011. They had issues with the piston rings and oil and has to do lots of warranty short block replacements for engines that ate themselves as a result. Once that was resolved the Outback/Legacy switched to the FB25 in 2013 I believe. I missed that fact that your 2011 vehicle is an Outback. I believe it uses an EJ not FB engine. There are 2.0 and 2.5 versions of both to further muddle things.

There may be other Subie engine swap threads that can help you with what you have. If you told your supplier what year and model your vehicle is and they sent you the wrong engine I suggest calling and asking if they can send you the correct one. VIN is a good way to make sure everyone is on the same page. I suspect they would not want the FB25 back because of shipping being on them.

In reply to Skenton :

I finished the combining of two engines.  It is in the car and works with no problems and no check engine lights.  I did not have to fabricate anything.  No spacers, longer bolts, etc.  It was an exercise in keeping 2 complete torn down engines organized and separate from each other.

To summarize... The 2011 Forester engine spun a rod bearing due to low oil.  I got a donor 2015 Outback engine and tore it down to the basic block.  Heads, upper oil pan, and flex plate all taken off.

1) Installed 2011 Forester flex plate, reluctor wheel and reluctor sensor on 2015 engine.

2) Installed 2011 Forester upper oil pan, lower oil pan on 2015 engine.

3) Installed 2011 Forester heads, cams, valve covers, coil packs on 2015 engine.

4) Installed 2011 Forester coolant crossover pipe and all top of engine sensors on 2015 engine.

5) Installed 2011 Forester timing set, timing cover on 2015 engine.

6) Installed 2011 Forester wiring harness, butterfly flapper thingys and intake on 2015 engine.

7) Installed 2011 alternator, power steering, air conditioner on 2015 engine.