Swapping Pads without swapping rotors: Should you scuff up the rotor?

Hey everyone

I'm going to be attending my first real HPDE/lapping experience soon at Calabogie Motorsport Park. My car is a stock Honda Civic Type R. 

Based on what I researched out of the box the car should be mostly fine. The only two changes I am making is

1. Upgraded brake fluid
2. EBC Bluestuff NDX brake pads front + rear

I know the EBC NDX are more entry level track pads, which is exactly what I want. My front rotors still have over 50% life left on them. If i am swapping from the stock Honda compound to the NDX compound, should I do anything special to remove the OE transfer layer? I've read with real track pads the abrasive action when cold should be enough, but the NDX isn't that aggressive. 

My front rotors still have over 50% life left on them. 

How did you measure this?

If this is going to be a regular thing I would consider getting a 2nd set of rotors to go with the new pads.  Bed them in and you are good to go.  Swap back to the street pads and rotors after the event and save the trackpads and rotors for the next track day.  Just make sure to label what came from where on the car so you can put things back where they were.  

Since it is a civic I bet you can get new Centric rotors cheap. 

EBC pads have an abrasive break-in coating (red layer on the new pads) so there's definitely no need to scuff the rotors with those. With pads that don't have such a coating, it can be a good idea to scuff the rotors but it generally isn't necessary.

In reply to dean1484 :

I measured the thickness of the rotors. 32mm is the new reading and 30mm is the replace. I measured 31mm. Funny thing is I got a set of replacement rotors already because I assumed the OE ones were already cooked. My plan was to run EBC NDX over the summer and swap back to OEM during fall/winter. 

I'm following this closely, as I have an Integra with less than 1,500 miles on it and I want to order some HPDE pads for it next week. It's been a while for me so I'm  seeking any available wisdom that's out there. 

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

I'm following this closely, as I have an Integra with less than 1,500 miles on it and I want to order some HPDE pads for it next week. It's been a while for me so I'm  seeking any available wisdom that's out there. 

Great cars. Is it the 1.5t or a Type S with the 2.0t ? 

I would worry more about what will happen when you put the street pads back on after the track day. I would get a set of rotors for the front to use with the new track pads.

Yeah you could run those pads as dual-duty pads, but if you're planning to switch back and forth there could be issues with the materials being incompatible, for that you should get a second set of rotors.

Again, appreciate all the feedback. The plan would be after the track season to swap pads and rotors back to OEM for fall and winter. 

According to the marketing at least, the NDX can be street driven. I'll be the judge of that in a few weeks :)

Up here in Canada, the OEM pads for the 2020+ Type R/ Type S retail for an eye watering $577 CAD plus taxes. The EBC Bluestuff NDX is significantly cheaper so I don't mind testing them for dual duty in the summer. 

J_D said:

In reply to dean1484 :

I measured the thickness of the rotors. 32mm is the new reading and 30mm is the replace. I measured 31mm. Funny thing is I got a set of replacement rotors already because I assumed the OE ones were already cooked. My plan was to run EBC NDX over the summer and swap back to OEM during fall/winter. 

I need to get a better measuring tool. Vernier calipers I have are a no go usually due to the lip that forms on the outer edge of the rotor.   I was curious what you used to measure it.  I could get a micrometer but good ones are $$$ and it would be a single use tool. Do they make a vernier caliper with a hooked jaw to get over the lip on things?   I should start a measuring tool thread and see what people are using. 
 

I geek out on this stuff but I am also from the school of " It's good enough just send it". I have built entire motors based on that theory "back in the day".   But these were SBC that had tolerances as big as barn doors. 

In reply to dean1484 :

It's not the most high quality tool but it got the job done. 
https://a.co/d/cSUNA3B

Hopefully, the track pads work out for you on the road too. For what you're planning, I'd scuff the disks when you swap the pads. It should reduce the chance of extra noise or vibration, and takes very little time.

I always used an electric palm sander with 80 or 100 grit to scuff disks.

We never had much luck just putting in pads on glazed rotors - it only needs a very small cut on each side to ensure that you have a fresh surface to bed the pads in on - much better result than trying to do that on glazed rotor   If you leave the rotors glazed then even with a surface coating of abrasive material like some EBC comp pads have the break in can be extended, particularly on the rear.

Make sure you bed the new pads in per EBC's directions. Don't just throw the new pads on and go to the track. Normally I'll go out late at night and find a highway with little traffic and do the bedding in process before the track day.

Don't be surprised if your EBCs disappoint you, I tried all the different compounds trying to get a track pad that worked. I finally solved the issue by spending big $$ and getting PFC 08 pads which work great. This was on my Porsche Boxster that had fairly large brakes for the speed of the car (slower than your Type R).

Continuing with my Mr. Killjoy theme, I also hope that your Civic Type R works well for you at the track. I've heard that they have a big problem with heat soak while at the track - enough the the car goes into a limp mode after a few laps until things cool down. This is all anecdotal evidence, maybe Honda has fixed the problem, or it was a different generation Type R from yours.

Have a great time at your first track experience! I do hope that you have a trouble free and really fun time.

In reply to J_D :

"Replace" is just the thickness where they can't guarantee that pads worn to the backing plates won't fall out, or that the pistons won't uncover the seals.  There is also a safety margin.

The rotors on my Volvo right now are over 1mm thinner than "replace", but I don't run pads down that far.   If I get them a little thinner, I can use Subaru pads!  (same calipers, but Subaru are 330x30 while Volvo are 330x32, the difference is that Volvo has thinner pads.  It's kind of like the difference between vented and nonvented VW 9.4" brakes)

More fun: New rotors are often at or near the "replace" spec.  People don't usually measure new rotors...

In reply to RacerBoy75 :

The plan right now is to install the EBC Bluestuff NDX a week or so before the trackday. I'll post back regarding how everything does, plus wear rates. I forgot to mention I purchased a set of titanium shims for the front calipers. Only reason being the paint on the front brembos likes to turn from red to brown when they are tracked ("brownbos"). There is some factory ducting as well, and since I'm on UHP 340TW street tires .... I'm not too worried. 

The 2017+ Type R does heat soak. I have a 2020 which was improved slightly, via a better front grille and redesigned radiator. I don't think it will be a problem because:

1. My car is stock
2. I live in Canada (not too toasty)
3. I am new to this. So I don't have the skill level to really overdrive the car. 

I will post back with results in a month or so! :)  

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Excellent. 

I swap back and forth all the time with no special prep. Either bed in well at home or take it easy the first few laps at the track. Probably depends somewhat on specific compounds though.