Talk Me Off The Ledge: E38 Edition.

So this is more Automotive ADD than anything, but I love big cars and while I have always liked the LS400, I have always liked the E38 740iL a lot more.

There are a lot of these out there in good shape for a reasonable price (reasonable, not cheap) in the mid 100k for mileage. I had a friend who's mom had a '97 and it was a damn nice car.

They don't seem like they have a lot of tech than can go wrong except for pixels , ok maybe there's other stuff, but I'm just curious what is a common failure in these cars.

I know a lot of people say to run from the big Luxury cars, but I like them too damn much.

They do suffer from some common faults that are best checked and/or rectified soon, lest there be costly issues down the road.

PCV valves gunk up with weird results.

Any unusual noises from cold mean something's rather wrong with the timing chain tensioner.

Make sure the cooling system is mint because the plastic end tanks and expansion reservoir will eventually crack, the viscous fan has a chance of going bad, and sometimes the hose going from the accumulator to the heater just bursts.

Door lock actuators do sometimes fail, but it's not ridiculously costly or hard to fix.

98+ models sometimes suffer from ABS/DSC module failure that manifests itself at first during heatsoak of the module.

Timing chain guides do sometimes suffer from catastropic failure, but if you buy a good one you should be able to put off replacement until Spring (it's long-winded and annoying to replace them).

That being said, if you buy a good one you'll have a sedan that drives great, has tons of toys, and still looks good today. I'd personally rather spend my money on a W140 (92-98) S-class with the 5 litre V8 which typically has fewer problems and allows you to easily change the radio out for one with Bluetooth and USB capability, but that's just my personal preference. As long as you inspect it properly, buy a good one, budget for the timing chain guide replacement, and keep up on regular maintenance, I don't see why it wouldn't make a reliable daily driver for years to come.

Talk you off the ledge?

Go the fast way (take the plunge).

Issues from our 97 740i:

• Pixels
• ABS wheel sensors (use OEM only!)
• BMW coolant system (usual stuff here. Change knock sensors if you think they are suspect as part of the water pump maintenance)
• Torque Converter (TCC failure)
• Transmission filter and fluid change
• Crappy plastic clips on interior/exterior parts
• Lower oil pan gasket
• Pixels
• Lots of rubber bushing in the suspension
• Windows regulators (driver side for ours)
• 4 fresh air filters (two in cabin and two in hood)
• Glove box handle breakage
• Plastic door locking mechanisms may fail in the locked position
• Valve cover gaskets
• Had to replace three coils
• Pixels

They still DIYable, but require DIS/GT1/INAPA to read Body, ABS, and Transmission modules. We have an early 740i with the "big" transmission.

It's hoot to drive. The driving dynamics and responsiveness (even with the recirc ball steering) hides the 4000lb weight very well. The M62 moves it nicely. I thought about selling my E34 530i and picking up another 740i. They are really good cars after sorting crap the PO neglected.

Do it, do it, do it! It's probably the best 7 series ever made in terms of being able to keep the thing working properly. And the later VANOS 740iL get surprisingly good fuel economy for its size too.

Of course, you could trade in some mpg and get the V12 instead... Funny part is, the V12s break less (no VANOS, timing chain guides don't fail, etc.)

You guys are a big bunch of enablers.

But seriously, it's not in the cards at the moment, but they are on the short list. I own my own business now, I should have an executives car.

In Reply To Strike_Zero: with that many pixel issues, none of them must have worked.

Gear indicator and radio pixel still available at this time (knock on word)! The message center is 98% blank. The one guy that does awesome pixels repairs, stole my cluster and module . He has a deal with Pelican Parts to repair then I believe. I'll find his name so others can avoid him.

What are the trunk hinges like?

Here's my second one, and my daily driver for the past year and a half:

2001 (last year) 740i Sport. 165k miles on it now. At 143k it got it's timing chain guides done, as well as teh valley pan gasket and cooling system gone through.

Timing chain guides could go bad at any point after about 120k miles, but my previous one was on it's original TCGs at 185k miles. VANOS is only on the '99-01s (M62TU engine) which are easily discerned by being the facelift cars (scooped headlights) so pre facelift ('95-98) don't have it. The '95s have the 4.0 liter V8 that had nikasil problems in the early days, but any that are still driving are either replacement engines or will never have the problem (no sulfur content in modern fuels to eat away at the liners).

As was mentioned, the V12 cars have fewer problems overall than the V8 cars, due to no TCGs, no VANOs, no OSV problems, and a more robust cooling system (though the radiators and expansion tanks can still crack due to the plastic tanks just like the V8 cars. Luckily they are cheap)

The most desirable ones are the '99-01 740i Sports, due to the added performance goodies (lowered springs, different shocks, 3.15:1 final drive, steptronic trans with manual mode and high stall converter) and cosmetic stuff (M parallel wheels, shadowline trim (blacked out), Vavona redwood interior trim, Sport seats with adjustable thigh support and more aggressive bolstering). The 740iL Sports did not get the performance goodies, only the cosmetic ones.

The iLs are the ones to have if you are carrying back seat passengers, and the 750 is the ultimate for that, with power reclining heated rear seats.

Here's my old 740iL:

Neither of my cars have had pixel issues, but it is a common thing (easily fixed these days, either DIY or though vendors). There's a huge community of owners, including my own Midatlantic 7s. E38.org is the best source of info on them. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask me, as I've been involved in the E38 community since 2006.

Oh, last thin... KBB excellent condition private party price is a mere $4500. BUT, do not buy one on price. Spend a bit more for an enthusiast owned one with records. Both of mine were $7500 cars and were bargains at that price. The '01 Sports can sell in good condition from $7500-15,000. Spend a bit more than the bare minimum and you will get a car that treats you well. Don't worry so much about mileage as condition. My first one cost me $1500 in repairs and maintenance over a 5 year span, and my current one, that I've had for a year and a half, has cost me $102 in repairs (braided stainless steel brake hoses and an instrument cluster bulb) and $660 in maintenance (new set of Sumitomo tires, a set of Akibono Euro ceramic pads, and an oil change). Shouldn't need tires or pads for another 3-5 years, so it should be pretty cheap overall to own.

awesome to drive if you have the fortitude to own it.

The V8s are not particularly reliable but are a wonderfully responsive and torquey motor.

Mister Fister wrote: awesome to drive if you have the fortitude to own it. The V8s are not particularly reliable but are a wonderfully responsive and torquey motor.

The V8s can indeed be quite reliable as daily drivers, if maintained well (proper oil changes, listening for things before they become big issues). I'm getting ready to drive to upstate NY from Baltimore later this week,a dn have no hesitation about driving across country. This time last year I drove to St Pete in Florida for a week. Never skipped a beat. This in a car that had 150k miles on it when I bought it.

Oh, and for the not-so-faint-at-heart, my buddy recently bought a low mileage '01 Sport and is doing an S62 (m5 V8) and 6 speed manual swap in it: S62 swap AND he's supercharged it.

Lot's of reading but it's going to be cool.

In reply to Chris_V:

I want some M-Parallels so bad. I would settle for the aftermarkets jobbies.

Nothing to add, just posting so this thread will show up under threads I've posted in for later reading.....

Those cars were new when I was doing roadside assistance for BMW. They were my favorite cars at the time and I think the body style aged well. They also seemed to be owned by the nicest people. The kind that would apologize for making you come out to change a flat but they had gotten old enough where they either couldn't or didn't want to fight with it in business clothes but while they were waiting pulled everything out of the trunk for you. I don't think I ever came across a ratty one back then.

Wall-e wrote: Those cars were new when I was doing roadside assistance for BMW. They were my favorite cars at the time and I think the body style aged well. They also seemed to be owned by the nicest people. The kind that would apologize for making you come out to change a flat but they had gotten old enough where they either couldn't or didn't want to fight with it in business clothes but while they were waiting pulled everything out of the trunk for you.

They still tend to be owned by the nicest group of people, though now it's more of a helpful DIY community. People that will drive a few states away to help out a fellow owner (actually, one of the more active E38 owners from the Netherlands has made several trips here to the states just to hang with and help out E38 owners...). At my last Midatlantic7s meet, it was commented by a guy who had his since new how it really seemed like a brotherhood of good friends who got together simply because of a special car.

In reply to Chris_V:

Thanks for all that info. It's really tempting with the cheap ones out there, but I do think some people are still asking way too much for some of them.

It probably won't happen in the next year, but I will get one one of these days.

While the V12 is tempting, I'd rather not have the atrocious fuel mileage associated with them.

The V12 cars get about 24 mpg highway, while the early non-Sport 740s can get up to 30 mpg highway. My Sport only gets about 24 mpg highway due to the 3:15 gears. They are surprisingly thrifty cars to own.

As for pricing, don't go by KBB and dont' be tempted by a low price. Go by condition and realize that a good one will cost you $7500+ for a Sport, or $5k + for a non sport (you spend on cheap ones at your own peril, as a $2000 740iL can cost you another 2-3k in repairs to get it up to snuff even if you DIY...)

Chris_V wrote: (you spend on cheap ones at your own peril, as a $2000 740iL can cost you another 2-3k in repairs to get it up to snuff even if you DIY...)

QFT! This is the route I took. I'm a DIY type person, but it is starting to become an annoyance. If I had the cash at the time (and if Mrs. Zero wasn't complaining), I would've searched out one in better condition.

I admit, I kind of have the hots for one of these. I'd want a really clean, low-miles example, but I still think I would have trouble convincing DW I wanted to spend 5 figures for a 15+ year-old car.

/edit/ So is the 750i Sport a thing? Or are all the 750is Ls?

In reply to G_Body_Man:

Not a Mercedes guy. I've always liked BMWs more. There's nothing about Mercedes in the last 30 years that makes me attracted to their styling. I could probably count on both my hands several BMW models I like.

Chris_V wrote: The V12 cars get about 24 mpg highway, while the early non-Sport 740s can get up to 30 mpg highway. My Sport only gets about 24 mpg highway due to the 3:15 gears. They are surprisingly thrifty cars to own. As for pricing, don't go by KBB and dont' be tempted by a low price. Go by condition and realize that a good one will cost you $7500+ for a Sport, or $5k + for a non sport (you spend on cheap ones at your own peril, as a $2000 740iL can cost you another 2-3k in repairs to get it up to snuff even if you DIY...)

Somehow in my mind, owning a V12 car in my mind doesn't seem like a good idea, even if they're fairly reliable. Honestly, as much as I like the Sport, I'd be happy with a good ole' 740.

I do like to carry passengers, some 6+ feet tall, so an iL is kind of what I'm looking at. It wouldn't be a daily, so the longer wheelbase doesn't bother me, plus when we go out on double dates, the ladies always sit in back and it would be kind of luxurious for them, I do care about my rear seat passengers.

What I meant about people wanting too much, is that there's people asking 5 figures for cars that are in just as good shape as ones with 4 figures. Any +10k for me better be something custom or something spectacular. I wouldn't mind paying $7-8k on a good car. I'm definitely staying away from $1500 mechanic specials.

Duke wrote: I admit, I kind of have the hots for one of these. I'd want a really clean, low-miles example, but I still think I would have trouble convincing DW I wanted to spend 5 figures for a 15+ year-old car. /edit/ So is the 750i Sport a thing? Or are all the 750is Ls?

ROW got the 750i, the US didn't. So there are 750i Sports in much of the rest of the world.

In the US, there is a 750iL Sport, with the blacked out trim, M parallels and way cool inlayed wood trim:

Other than that, it's just a cosmetic package on the 750iL, with no additional performance than the standard 750iL.

Lots of options for the iLs, and a lot of people swap 750 stuff into the 740s, to get the additional wood trim (like the soft rear interior reading lights we affectionately call "porn lights" and leather and wood grab handles/shifter) and some even swap in the reclining power rear seats. The iL's handle almost as good as the i's, and they all hustle along backroads nicely, even my '98 iL that I pictured before.

And yeah, the iL is a nice place to be a rear seat passenger (this is my old '98):

Now you have me looking for E38 750s.

This 750iL just popped up on CL up in one of the ritzy suburbs. Only $6900 and it sounds pretty good.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/5859840908.html

This Always sucks me in. Always seem to be some high quality ones on there.