bobzilla said:There will be no financing involved. Add in that new gets the 10/100 drivetrain warranty where used drops to 5/60.
even if i had the cash on hand to buy outright, i'd take sub-3% financing just for the peace of mind of keeping that lump of cash available for "oh E36 M3" or "look what i found" moments.
bobzilla said:Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:Toyman! said:No.
I concur. Unless you have 50% or more in cash to put down on it, or they're giving some ridiculously low interest rate, I wouldn't.
I also wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a new car for DD use in the rust-belt, unless they only drive a few blocks for work. Even though modern cars don't appear to rust out like they used to, you're still going to be dealing with rusty brake lines, fasteners, etc. within 5-years.
Find a decent clean used DD south of the Mason-Dixon Line instead.
Used are selling for MORE than new at this time. I can snag one in Phoenix, spend a weekend with the inlaws and drive it home for $23k + tax. Used I'm looking at $26k. Makes no sense. There will be no financing involved. Add in that new gets the 10/100 drivetrain warranty where used drops to 5/60.
Oh I'm thinking buying something older but nice for around $10-$12k now that used prices are dropping.
Most Phoenix dealers are not selling new cars to anyone out of State, I'd check that before you get too far down that rabbit hole.
In reply to bobzilla :
Mine has IRS. Mine doesn't have a drive mode button and I pretty much drive it all the time with TCS on and don't notice any wierd driveability issues. Obviously tuning of all that is chassis and brand specific. I do shut TCS off when I'm going to drive "aggressively" because it gets enough slip in 2nd that it cuts power.
Again as a sporty DD I'm fully happy. I have never tried to dual use it and Autox it. So it may be horrible if you plan to race it but it sounds likely that you are just looking for a reliable place to chew mileage that feels a little special sometimes. They are good at that.
It is horrible if you plan to race, because you can't defeat the stability control. But doesn't sound like thats the mission here.
In reply to ProDarwin :
By the time I get there it'll be 10 years old and I am sure there will be tuning fixes available if I wanted. Sure, I could go with the GT-Line, save a few grand and all that but I just love to DD a manual trans fun car. I have a "no mods to the DD" rule in place right now for her car that would roll into this if we so choose.
The sad part, for $25k what other manual trans, non sucky cars are left? Civic Si, but it's starting price is $29500 before you pay the honda retail tax. And we all know how I feel about buying a honda. Hyundai offers the Elantra N but quite a bit more. Nissan has the base Versa which sounds terrible. Toyota doesn't offer anything but the GR.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:bobzilla said:There will be no financing involved. Add in that new gets the 10/100 drivetrain warranty where used drops to 5/60.even if i had the cash on hand to buy outright, i'd take sub-3% financing just for the peace of mind of keeping that lump of cash available for "oh E36 M3" or "look what i found" moments.
We already have those funds. Wife prefers no payments each month so thats what we do. The reason we can is partly because we've been buying cheap used crap for a decade now and I have been the mechanic fixing it for pennies on the dollar. Finally sat down over this winter before we bought her car and figured out what our maintenance would have actually cost for hte last few years. She was much more accepting of a new car for once.
So, in this purchase, the Rio remains the racer?
If yes then I seem to remember that recently you commented on your Silverado and rust. Yes, truck prices are crazy now but could this be the time for an updated tow rig?
Could a 2.7t truck meet your needs?
John Welsh said:So, in this purchase, the Rio remains the racer?
If yes then I seem to remember that recently you commented on your Silverado and rust. Yes, truck prices are crazy now but could this be the time for an updated tow rig?
Could a 2.7t truck meet your needs?
No. Neither of us like any of the new trucks, especially at the prices they sell for. We don't tow but very rarely and the trailer is used more for home stuff than car stuff or loaned to friends for use. We have been part time looking for another GMT800 without rust but as infrequent as it gets used it's not a big need. When it blew the brake line last week was the first time in over 4 weeks since it had even been started
bobzilla said:In reply to Javelin :
Her Seltos is that blue I think I'd have to have a different color.
The red is nice too
Then with that settled, if you want to ever own a manual trans bought new, you likely need to act now. Most are gone and all will be gone in short years to come. Furthermore, sedans will be gone too so a manual trans sedan is doubly destined to become a thing of the past.
Some more things about the Forte GT to consider:
-Beware that there is a GT-Line model and a GT model. The GT-Line has all the looks of the GT and none of the performance. These are based on the regular Forte chassis and have smaller brakes, smaller wheels, the 2.0 NA engine, and the beam axle out back instead of the multi-link. I wouldn't consider the base Forte against its competition, and I wouldn't consider a GT-Line, either.
-The cold no-boost thing is real, and I'm sure it's designed in the tune to be that way. Most modern turbo cars I've driven also do this, so this is nothing new.
-On the MT cars, there are two drive modes: Normal and Sport. I find Normal to be annoying. It's like every driver input becomes a suggestion, and the car lazily complies. The Sport mode fixes everything. Throttle is as snappy as a cable-actuated throttle, the steering tightens up, and there's more boost sooner. The thing that drives me nuts is that if you shut the car off, it defaults back to Normal. Most cars do this though.
In reply to Tony Sestito :
Yeah the GT-Line wasn't even on my radar. No manual trans, no boost, no cares.
Sport mode on the Seltos is similar. It's a wierd thing being all aggressive and sporty-ish in a small CVT CUV. I haven't even told the wife about that mode yet.
I think they're a really solid choice, but I'd drive an Elantra N before making the final decision. I saw (and heard) one a few weeks ago at the local WalMart parking lot, and I was googling prices and optioning one out w/in 5 minutes. Definitely overkill for a DD, but they look like a lot of fun!
In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :
Outta the budget.
Two respectfully offered points:
The Elantra N isn't a lot more money and is more car. No manual trans but a newer platform and IMHO perhaps a little more refined. At a minimum it's a fresher look (assuming you like the look is another thing altogether).
Also, the used car market prices are dropping quickly. As much as I love the Forte GT (nearly bought one before I bought my Stinger), they will plummet in price soon. All small and midsized cars likely will possibly with the exception of hybrids. I believe within 12 months you'll be able to buy a 2 year old low mileage Kia Certified Forte GT for somewhere around 18k. Obviously this is a bold prediction, but at 22 years + in the car business and now in auto lending, I think it's also a reasonable prediction given what we are already seeing in dropping wholesale values and increased supply on hand.
In reply to Loweguy5 :
$11-12k more is almost 50% more. How is that "not much more"? In what world is a 50% increase insignificant?
manual trans is a must. Otherwise I'd just look at a base car and move along. Full warranty is the other. Used cars don't get full 10/100 unless CPO and cpo cars are more money to the point of almost new prices.
EDIT: The Elantra and Forte are same platform. The main difference between the N and non is the wierd "integrated axle assembly" on the front and the drivetrain.
Cross-shopping the Forte GT/Elantra N-Line and the Elantra N are like cross-shopping a Civic Si and a Civic Type R. Same platform, different engine/drivetrain. And not even close to the same money.
The Forte GT is a competent, fun daily driver with creature comforts. The Elantra N is all that cranked to 11 and more comfortable on track thanks to its enhancements over the GT, but like the Type R is, you're gonna pay for it.
It blows my mind that an Elantra base manual was ~$12k brand new just a few years ago.
In reply to ProDarwin :
"Just a few years ago" I bought our first Korean car new, 2002 Elantra GLS for $13k otd
Well I mean I was negotiating with a dealer for one in December 2018, when I bought a Veloster instead like an idiot.
why does 2018 seem so long ago?
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:bobzilla said:There will be no financing involved. Add in that new gets the 10/100 drivetrain warranty where used drops to 5/60.even if i had the cash on hand to buy outright, i'd take sub-3% financing just for the peace of mind of keeping that lump of cash available for "oh E36 M3" or "look what i found" moments.
This 100%. The "all debt is bad debt, Dave Ramsey" crowd don't seem to understand how to make debt work for them.
In reply to z31maniac :
Call me stupid all you want, I really don't give a berkeley. The wife feels more comfortable when there are no payments, so we don't have payments. We seem to be doing OK with our finances so thanks for your concern, she will do things her way. Plus I've never seen nor read anything from Dave Ramsey and neither has the wife. She learned her finances from her accountant father.
I agree with you Bob, that's not great advice. Take on debt and pay interest just in case something happens is a backwards way of thinking about it.
As for spending that load on a Hyundai/Kia product, I know that 1.6 is actually one of the good engines, but a 10 yr warranty is no good if they won't honour it, and they don't exactly have a good track record.
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