Talk me out of / in to a side business (Miata content)

I agree that backdating a Miata is not going to make money in the aforementioned plan. My point was NAs look alike. There is a distinction between a long nose Porsche and the rest of the 420K aircooled Porsches made. To be an ICON type resto, the original donors need to be thin on the ground, and for the moment, that does not apply to Miatas (IMHO). Maybe better luck doing ACVWs?

Am I arguing on the internet? This is fun. I finally see what all the fuss is about.

For what it's worth, I'm restoring a NA to as close to factory as I can get. Maybe I'm a 

EDIT: In a less D@#Kish manner, what about converting Miatas to electric power? That's the future!

Singer is already doing ACVWs :)

This is a good discussion, it's helping to clarify some thinking of mine. 

And I've already said I want to do an Electromiata. All I need is a large suitcase full of money. I'm also harassing a friend who works at Lucid to push for "crate motor" availability. He's trying to make it sound haaaaaaaard.

Keith Tanner said:

And I've already said I want to do an Electromiata. All I need is a large suitcase full of money. I'm also harassing a friend who works at Lucid to push for "crate motor" availability. He's trying to make it sound haaaaaaaard.

The LS swap of the future! I'm excited for the next generation of battery density too.

I think it is important to measure success the right way here - we are talking about successful company models, NOT successful people doing cool stuff we wish we could do.

Singer may be putting out a super-cool product we would like to own, but what do we know about the companies actual financials? Last youtube doc I saw about them, the owner talked about looong hours and how he wished he could afford a car like the once he buildes for his customers. Magnus and his wife started and owned a large clothing company that lay the foundation for his wealth. He started as a Porsche collector who also modified cars for himself. I could be wrong, but I do doubt he makes money on the Porsche-part of his life. 

I'm sorry to say, but I think the Miata-world is a really tough one to get into and make a decent living. The large successful companies like FM or Good-win have been around since the dawn of time and built a business on the Miata when it was a new car. I have a friend who quit his R&D-job and started his own company, partially doing aftermarket car parts for track day cars and such. He intentionally stays away from Miatas, E30, Nissan 200SX and similar, since those owners typically (not always) choose those cars due to their value for money. The SAME part made to fit a BMW E90 or F30 happily sells for a LOT higher price. 

In reply to Torkel :

I sort of alluded to that but didn't want to be that guy, but if you have a bunch of money to spend on a car, chances are it is not going to be on a Miata.  I love Miatas, but they are known as a bang for the buck sports car, and I do not see that changing anytime soon.  Not slamming a Miata, but if you have  50k to 100k plus to spend, most people want something rarer and higher performing.  As I mentioned, the Flyin Miata V8 cars or something similar could crack that, but it would need to be extra, extra special.  If you think of what you can actually buy for those figures, where does the Miata really stand?   Like I said, I don't want to be that guy, but from a business stand point, who really is your market here, and do they want what you are offering?

Extra, extra special is a given. You're not going to get anywhere if you make unexceptional cars. That's true no matter what you use from a base. For every $500k Singer, there's a $80k "outlaw" 911 that's a pastiche of ideas someone found on Pinterest.

Keith Tanner said:

Extra, extra special is a given. You're not going to get anywhere if you make unexceptional cars. That's true no matter what you use from a base. For every $500k Singer, there's a $80k "outlaw" 911 that's a pastiche of ideas someone found on Pinterest.

True, but the Miata equivalent to the $80k Porsche would be probably a $6k one with wheels and an ebay turbo.  My point is, the guys with that kind of disposable income are probably middle age or older, and are they truly the market?  I could be wrong and you are way deeper in that world than I am for sure, but I think $20k to $30k may be a max spend on one, at least for now.  The problem lies in just sourcing the parts and justifying the labor.  How are you going to make a profit?  Now, asked if i think it would be majorly cool to build one and offer them for sale, certainly.  I would love to see it.  I am just having problems with the potential of doing it for a living and getting someone to pay enough to make it worthwhile.  I have two dream Miatas in my head right now in fact.

This is a case of build the vision, make sure it can catch the money, then figure out how to replicated it more efficiently every time while offering the right amout of personalization. 

racerdave600 said:

Keith Tanner said:

Extra, extra special is a given. You're not going to get anywhere if you make unexceptional cars. That's true no matter what you use from a base. For every $500k Singer, there's a $80k "outlaw" 911 that's a pastiche of ideas someone found on Pinterest.

True, but the Miata equivalent to the $80k Porsche would be probably a $6k one with wheels and an ebay turbo.  My point is, the guys with that kind of disposable income are probably middle age or older, and are they truly the market?  I could be wrong and you are way deeper in that world than I am for sure, but I think $20k to $30k may be a max spend on one, at least for now.  The problem lies in just sourcing the parts and justifying the labor.  How are you going to make a profit?  Now, asked if i think it would be majorly cool to build one and offer them for sale, certainly.  I would love to see it.  I am just having problems with the potential of doing it for a living and getting someone to pay enough to make it worthwhile.  I have two dream Miatas in my head right now in fact.

There's not a good market for a $50k Miata, but I think there's a market for a $100k one. The guys at Singer agree. That's not just a matter of doubling your asking price, though. It's a matter of investing that much more effort into it in ways that it shows.

Bone stock perfect NAs are into the 20s, BTW.

racerdave600 said:

My point is, the guys with that kind of disposable income are probably middle age or older, and are they truly the market?  I could be wrong and you are way deeper in that world than I am for sure, but I think $20k to $30k may be a max spend on one, at least for now. 

I don't know. I mean people growing up during the import craze are not going into their 30s and 40s and there is a good chance they have some extra coin. Look at the prices that Supras, FD RX7s, Type R Integras, etc recently and I don't see middle aged guys going crazy about those cars. Spoon Sports is doing a street resto mod on a EG Civic that runs about $150k. But I am not sure Miatas have the same kind of pull as some of those cars.

So, it is more or less a consensus that the Miata's styling is excellent, as is the gearbox, rear, etc.

That leaves(yes, I'm fantastically obvious), everyone's favorite complaint, power. I like the Ford/Jag V6 a lot. Or electric. And snazz up the interior. Or, as mentioned, engineer a coupe.

What else is there? Not much low hanging fruit in Mazda's design.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

And I regret everyday selling my '91 BRG.    It remains my favorite MIata even if it wasn't the fastest.  Now, in the future I may pay a premium to get a nice one, who knows.  For the record, I hope you are right and I am wrong.  I think Miatas deserve more than what they get outside of the small autocross universe.