Terrible scene. Atlanta snow then instant ice rink.

ProDarwin wrote:

trigun7469 wrote: When you live in a big city, in the midwest and/or North East, the roads are pretty well groomed, I moved to a smaller city in the NE, and the roads are not well groomed.

big city + groomed roads = OK small city + ungroomed roads = OK big city + ungroomed roads = chaos I live in Winston Salem now. We got snow tuesday as well. 1-2" on the ground, and businesses/schools/etc. shut down due to general panic. Idiots were out driving as usual, but the volume of traffic here is slow low it doesn't paralyze the city. Most people made it home without incident. Multiply the situation here 25x and you get... Atlanta

+1.

It's almost worse when the grooming makes thing worse. But big city + icy/snowy roads = chaos.

Sucks be them, and I feel for the leaders, since they had nothing to work with- so nothing was done. But it is their fault (partially) that there is nothing to work with.

How soon till the southerners rip into us up North for bitching about a week of 95 degree days?

Sky_Render wrote: Those who say that Southerners can't drive in the snow and that "this happens every day in New England" are missing one crucial piece of information. Atlanta doesn't have de-icing equipment. They can't properly clear the roads. If a New England snow storm had to work with Atlanta's (lack of) snow removal infrastructure, there would be *just as many accidents.*

So why can't the BIG city of Atlanta have some equipment available to do this duty, my little village of 1600 can cope with this expense.

Why are people still arguing, it is a two fold problem, crappy preparation by the authorities and a lot of crappy drivers/cars.

Both can be fixed but it seems the cool aid is tasty down there and the population (in general) thinks the issue is unavoidable.

It is very avoidable.

aussiesmg wrote: Both cam be fixed but it seems the cool aid is tasty down there and the population (in general) thinks the issue is unavoidable. It is very avoidable.

Bingo. But like has already been stated, we as a society will not remember this the next time and the finger pointing and the idiocy will fly all over a again.

But we will have this thread...

Naw, here's the reason it won't get fixed: politicians want their name on statues and bridges and etc., not on snowplows.

In reply to aussiesmg:

It's all about money. If Atlanta had enough money, they could be prepared for a once in a decade storm like this.

Whereas our areas know it happens every year. And even then, can be caught out pretty bad (here in SE MI). Right now, we are hearing that most snow and ice clearing budgets are about to run out- and we have two more months of winter to go.

The amount of hardware that Atlanta would need to be just sitting around for a once in a decade event is pretty big. Not much of that can be shared with a lot of other stuff- trucks don't need to be fitted with "spreading" equipment other than for salt and sand in bad weather. Trucks generally don't need to grade paved roads- so no plows. It would be great if there were that much cross over to share the equipment, I'm just not sure if it's feasable. Particularly in this political environmnet of cutting to the bone.

Curmudgeon wrote: Naw, here's the reason it won't get fixed: politicians want their name on statues and bridges and etc., not on snowplows.

Would you be happy if there was a fleet of trucks that were only used once or twice a decade? That's millions of dollars just sitting there doing nothing.

In reply to Bobzilla and aussiesmg:

It's a tough call to allocate millions of dollars for equipment that might get used once a year. Since I live in metro Atlanta, I prefer to see my (forced) donation to government spent in ways that are more appropriate 365 days per year.

OTOH, when/if everything is shut down because of an imminent threat of a two-inch snowfall, we'll still get hammered by arseholes who believe they know the best answer.

Just sayin........

Our county trucks do cross over duties, the plows and spreaders come off, they also last, many, many years.

The once a decade is pushing it, 2012 was the last time they had this debarcle. Nothing was done then, now we are predicting in 2 years they will still have done nothing.

Then who is to blame when 10,000 children spend the night in a school bus

oldsaw wrote: In reply to Bobzilla and aussiesmg: It's a tough call to allocate millions of dollars for equipment that might get used once a year. Since I live in metro Atlanta, I prefer to see my (forced) donation to government spent in ways that are more appropriate 365 days per year. OTOH, when/if everything is shut down because of an imminent threat of a two-inch snowfall, we'll still get hammered by arseholes who believe they know the best answer. Just sayin........

Really, so Atlanta's Governments do not waste any funds that could be put to better use saving lives and getting kids home from school.

I see how I am such an arsehole, but I would still spend that money and forgo a statue or a painting in the lobby of a county garage

I am so bad

In reply to aussiesmg:

Well, I bet today, the tax payers would be willing to foot the bill.

6 months from now may be a different story.

Then again, I'm not that upset about it- not something I need to project my anger toward. So if they do something or not, it's not really my business.

It IS my business that our locals figured out that spraying brine when it's <9F is a bad thing. So instead of 3 days of driving hell like a week ago, we just got one morning. Much better.

aussiesmg wrote: Our county trucks do cross over duties, the plows and spreaders come off, they also last, many, many years. The once a decade is pushing it, 2012 was the last time they had this debarcle. Nothing was done then, now we are predicting in 2 years they will still have done nothing. Then who is to blame when 10,000 children spend the night in a school bus

SAme here. In fact, my county currently has the oldest fleet of trucks in the state. The newest truck Boone Co has was built in 2004. 10 years of year 'round abuse, 10 winters carrying the single element that rusts any piece of metal has started to take it's toll. IIRC, this year (2014 FY) is the year they have slated to replace a third of the fleet (60 trucks total, so 20 this year).

If Atlanta does any road work at all, they already have the trucks. They just need the plows to install on them and the spreaders to put in the back. You're talking $10-15k in equipment per vehicle. that's a drop in the bucket compared to what they waste on other stupid crap.

aussiesmg wrote: Then who is to blame when 10,000 children spend the night in a school bus

The same freakin people who are responsible for this one, the last and the next one - state and local politicians, school administrators (who operate under their own rules), business owners (who operate under their own rules) and the people who vote and/or work.

I'm not sure the investment in equipment is the full answer. Locally (Ottawa, Canada) our annual city budget for snow removal is in the millions of $ and we still have multiple car accidents during any given snow storm (especially the first of the season). This past Monday there were over 100 accidents reported within the city because of blowing snow and white-outs. Yesterday a section of Hwy 401 outside of Belleville (Montreal/Toronto corridor) was closed for several hours because of a multi-vechicle accident in a white-out.

Salt trucks and snow plows don't necessarily help if we don't know how to drive in these conditions...

Bobzilla wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: Our county trucks do cross over duties, the plows and spreaders come off, they also last, many, many years. The once a decade is pushing it, 2012 was the last time they had this debarcle. Nothing was done then, now we are predicting in 2 years they will still have done nothing. Then who is to blame when 10,000 children spend the night in a school bus

SAme here. In fact, my county currently has the oldest fleet of trucks in the state. The newest truck Boone Co has was built in 2004. 10 years of year 'round abuse, 10 winters carrying the single element that rusts any piece of metal has started to take it's toll. IIRC, this year (2014 FY) is the year they have slated to replace a third of the fleet (60 trucks total, so 20 this year). If Atlanta does any road work at all, they already have the trucks. They just need the plows to install on them and the spreaders to put in the back. You're talking $10-15k in equipment per vehicle. that's a drop in the bucket compared to what they waste on other stupid crap.

+maintenance on all of that equipment +space to store all of that equipment +the facilities to store sand/salt +the actual cost of sand/salt +drivers to operate said equipment

How many trucks, and how much sand/salt does it take to treat the roads for 5.5 million people?

Its much cheaper just to shut everything down. I agree that the blame lies with those who have the ability to make that call, but yes they are in the unfortunate position of catching E36 M3 if they make the call and there isn't a storm.

In reply to alfadriver:

Our county uses normal dump trucks for snow removal......they have a removable plow hitch and a removable spreader on the back. 10 months out of the year those same dump trucks are carrying gravel and asphalt for roadwork. Its not like they need the expensive spreader beds or wing plows other places use, nor the dedicated trucks for the big V-plows. Hell, the v-plow dedicated ones for our county are actually tandem drive dump trucks from the 1970's with 6v92T's in them.......so you REALLY know when they're out.

ggarrard wrote: I'm not sure the investment in equipment is the full answer. Locally (Ottawa, Canada) our annual city budget for snow removal is in the millions of $ and we still have multiple car accidents during any given snow storm (especially the first of the season). This past Monday there were over 100 accidents reported within the city because of blowing snow and white-outs. Yesterday a section of Hwy 401 outside of Belleville (Montreal/Toronto corridor) was closed for several hours because of a multi-vechicle accident in a white-out. Salt trucks and snow plows don't necessarily help if we don't know how to drive in these conditions...

Hundreds, compared to the THOUSANDS in Atlanta. apples meet watermelons.

Why would you spend a bunch of money on a ton of trucks that get used once a year? I don't know Atlanta's situation but Birmingham, which got hit about as bad, just came out of bankruptcy. I seriously doubt it makes sense to buy equipment rather then just shut down the city for that one time a year it happens. It is like buying winter tires or tire chains down here. It makes no sense for the one time a year you need them.

aussiesmg wrote: Really, so Atlanta's Governments do not waste any funds that could be put to better use saving lives and getting kids home from school.

Waste, fraud and corruption are orders of magnitude bigger than the mess Mother Nature threw at us. It would be easier to just build a dome over the metro area.

aussiesmg wrote: I am so bad

"Bad" isn't how I would describe your position; delusional is a bit more appropriate.

In reply to oldsaw:

Build the dome, but make sure to leave off the UV protectant......let the city really become "Hotlanta"

93EXCivic wrote: Why would you spend a bunch of money on a ton of trucks that get used once a year? I don't know Atlanta's situation but Birmingham, which got hit about as bad, just came out of bankruptcy. I seriously doubt it makes sense to buy equipment rather then just shut down the city for that one time a year it happens. It is like buying winter tires or tire chains down here. It makes no sense for the one time a year you need them.

Again, because it appears you missed it, we're not talking about specific vehicles. Any truck they use for road maintenance now just needs a plow and/or spreader mounted in to be used. This doesn't require buying a ton of vehicles that are specific to snow/ice removal. Merely some removable equipment added to trucks ALREADY IN USE. Typical (gov't) cost is $10-15k per unit to make them double duty. Considering they likely pay upwards of $50-60k PER TRUCK (minimum, more if the gov't is as corrupt as everyone says), adding $10k in equipment to make them useful for 12 months of the year seems like the logical thought here.

Why does everyone south of the M/D line think we have all this single purpose crap for snow removal? Hell, you know what our V-plows are in Boone county? The road grader for out gravel road. They install weight in the rear and a V-plow up front. I've seen garbage trucks in major cities suited up for snow removal with a plow.

Like I've said a few times already, this ain't rocket surgery.

SilverFleet wrote: And I was complaining when it took me 2.5hrs to get home during a legitimate blizzard last week! Wow... Like others said, the southern states may not have the equipment, resources, or proper knowledge to deal with snow or ice, even if it's only a few inches. Given that I've read reports in the past few years of horror stories of slight ice or snow storms crippling cities in Texas, Georgia, etc, maybe they should start preparing for this kind of weather. And like others also said, it only takes one doofus to screw up traffic for everybody. But again, this can happen anywhere, even up here in MA where we are "prepared" for it. Last year (I think) there was a storm that kinda came up on us quick on a weekday. The governor declared a state of emergency, and sent home all non-essential workers at around 1PM. That caused a horrific traffic jam pretty much across the entire state. People commuting in or around Boston (like me) were caught up in the mess, and for some, it took many hours to get home. So, I can understand the insanity that goes on when a storm hits a Southern locale. What I can't explain is how so many people UP HERE in New England cannot deal with the snow. It has been snowing or cold here during the winter pretty much every year in recorded history, yet every time it snows, people cannot clear their cars off, they lose all the shovels they bought the year before, and they forget how to drive completely.

I lived in Florida for a couple years and every year there is a Hurricane and hardly anybody is ever prepared for it. You are stretching it asking for them to be prepared for the snow.

Having worked in auto claims any moisture regardless of the location, there are always more accidents, bottom line is too many cars and to many people do not know how to drive them.

Solution is that driver test should be more intense and everybody should have to take classes that teaches them how to drive in bad conditions. Those that take the course get the amount subtracted out of their insurance, those that don't take the class have their rates go up.

I feel for the leaders, since they had nothing to work with

But that's bullE36 M3. They "invested" millions in equipment after the last fiasco, but decided not to use it.

Also, the Governor and Mayor continue to commit political suicide. Governor refuses to speak to national media. Stormed out of a local press conference today. Guess who I won't be voting for.

In reply to Bobzilla:

Hell, a $6000 tank trailer can be setup quite easily to treat 2 lanes of highway at a time with the liquid salt(Calcium Chloride IIRC)

Said trailer can be pulled by any ordinary pickup truck.