Texas Indy Car Race

Adrian_Thompson wrote: 4. I think the argument about enclosing the wheels is purely facetious. There are plenty of instances where LMP1, P2, DP and GT cars are going airborne, or at least being flipped up and over in IMSA and ESC/WEC etc.

How so? Because it's not a more common occurrence in open wheel than it is in closed fender race cars?

Never once in my post did I say it DIDN'T happen in closed wheel cars, I said it happens MORE FREQUENTLY in open wheel classes. Asphalt, road course, roundy round and dirt.

I get that me and you disagree on a lot of this stuff, but don't act like I'm implying something that I clearly was not.

Fact: Open wheel cars get airborne because of less severe wheel-to-wheel contact than closed fender cars, and present exactly the problem you mentioned earlier.........and I mentioned earlier.......twice.....with the same driver! Leffler, Swindell Jr (although made it through the wreck), etc)

My point is, no one is clamoring to fix the open wheel issue. But making a huge deal about the open cockpit.

insert comment about whedon/surtees

I am a bit befuddled as to why they can race open cockpit cars for 100 years, but all of a sudden now we need cockpit protection. It's not like more drivers are dying or getting hurt these days, in fact, quite the opposite. And yeah, more drivers get hurt flipping sprint cars, but not once have I heard anyone say one damn thing about trying to "fix" the problem. Does this also mean that eventually Formula Fords or Formula 4 will wind up needing cockpit protection?

z31maniac wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: 4. I think the argument about enclosing the wheels is purely facetious. There are plenty of instances where LMP1, P2, DP and GT cars are going airborne, or at least being flipped up and over in IMSA and ESC/WEC etc.

How so? Because it's not a more common occurrence in open wheel than it is in closed fender race cars? Never once in my post did I say it DIDN'T happen in closed wheel cars, I said it happens MORE FREQUENTLY in open wheel classes. Asphalt, road course, roundy round and dirt. I get that me and you disagree on a lot of this stuff, but don't act like I'm implying something that I clearly was not. Fact: Open wheel cars get airborne because of less severe wheel-to-wheel contact than closed fender cars, and present exactly the problem you mentioned earlier.........and I mentioned earlier.......twice.....with the same driver! Leffler, Swindell Jr (although made it through the wreck), etc) My point is, no one is clamoring to fix the open wheel issue. But making a huge deal about the open cockpit. *insert comment about whedon/surtees*

Wow. no offence meant. I actually think (my opinion based on observation, not statistical fact) that it happens more with closed cars than open, or at least it seems that way.

I'm not counting sprint cars and outlaws in that though, to me they are an entirely different form of racing, it's like they're designed to flip as part of the show. I'm comparing road racing based open wheel (inc Indy car) to sports cars and door slammers and probably the various NASCAR series out there.

ncjay wrote: I am a bit befuddled as to why they can race open cockpit cars for 100 years, but all of a sudden now we need cockpit protection. It's not like more drivers are dying or getting hurt these days, in fact, quite the opposite. And yeah, more drivers get hurt flipping sprint cars, but not once have I heard anyone say one damn thing about trying to "fix" the problem. Does this also mean that eventually Formula Fords or Formula 4 will wind up needing cockpit protection?

Why do we need HANS?
Why do we need existing removable foam halo's around the drivers helmets?
Why do we need safer barriers?
Why do we need wheel tethers?
Why do we need crash structures?
Why do we need seat belts?
Why do we need fire extinguishers?
Why do we need Armco?
Why can't spectators stand on the edge of the track behind hay bales?

We don't need any of this stuff, but as the world, technology and acceptance of danger changes it's (In MY, MY not anyone else’s, opinion that society and the racing community do all that is practical to protect the drivers and spectators from death and danger as increasing understanding and knowledge increases.

Ultimately I think whatever the F1 and or Indy car solution is will eventually trickle down to lower formula such as lights, GP2, GP3, F3, F4, F2000, Star Mazda, Formula Ford whatever.

The interesting thing will be will that happen before racing as we know it dries up?

I bet by the turn of the next century human operated cars will already be to society what horses are today. No longer a form of every day transport, but playthings. There will be more country club style tracks for people to 'play' with their cars. What that will do to the feeder series I have no idea.

I can't comment on Sprint cars, I've never been to a sprint car race in this country (although I did see many British F1 Stock car races which are similar in concept) before moving here. I've never sat down to watch a sprint car race our world of outlaw race on TV, only linked highlights in YouTube. I'm not denigrating that style of racing. I know for a fact that the skill of those drivers is just as good as other forms of racing, it just doesn't hit my personal 'want to see' buttons.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: it just doesn't hit my personal 'want to see' buttons.

You should give it a try on of these days. Especially the big winged Outlaw cars.

900hp V8s, big wings, driving sideways north of 125mph.

Adrian,

If you like the sights/sounds/smells of racecars racing, you should witness the fray at your local dirt roundy-ring, at least once!

Adrian, maybe we need a Michigan GRM get together at a sprint car event. There are winged and non-winged series in the state , and I believe both run 360 and 410 divisions. Sprint cars aren't high on my list of racing to see regularly, but every once in a while it's pretty neat to go watch . Qualifying on a 3/8 or 1/2 mile oval is a whoot.

In reply to DeadSkunk:

Flatrock?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to DeadSkunk: Flatrock?

Nah. Gotta be on dirt. Owosso?

The closest I've come to spring cars is British Stock car racing. The F1 cars are basically big ass mofo V8's in simple chassis on short dirt or tarmac ovals. I used to see it fairly often about 30 years ago in my teens with my then girlfriend (now long gone ex wife) and her family. They seem a lot lower and less flip prone than US sprint cars though.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vmhJ1XnoDMU