That was surprising: Fahrenheit GTI

Yesterday I went to test drive a very clean 2008 RX-8 that had an auto transmission. It was awful.

They had a bright orange GTI Fahrenheit on the lot, so I took a trip in that. I was surprised at how fun the car was to drive and how much I liked the seats (which fit me perfectly).

I've read all of the horror stories about VAG products, and this one doesn't come with any maintenance record beyond the Carfax, so I'm staying away, but it has put a wrinkle in my brain that I didn't expect.

Right now I am thinking that with an LSD up front and a bit of suspension tuning to eliminate under-steer a GTI would be a joy to drive every day.

That's the worst part about those cars, really. It's like having a smoking hot meth addict mistress.

Swank Force One wrote: That's the worst part about those cars, really. It's like having a smoking hot meth addict mistress.

Yeah pretty much. They make good looking and driving cars, but that's the only appeal for me.

Yep. They are great under warranty, but after that? No. Just no.

That's why vw can still sell cars. They're awesome if you dont have to fix em.

GASP! Don't you know rwd is infinitely superior to fwd, no matter what? I guffaw at you, a mere charlatan posing among fine gentlemen of the automobile.

I keep thinking that one of these cars are going to disintegrate in front of me and make me a believer, but I've been working on VW's since I was 14 years old, and still don't understand the VW hate. They're not hard to fix, and they don't really break that often. But that's cool, the horror stories will keep them cheap enough for me to afford, so keep it up.

16vCorey wrote: They're not hard to fix, and they don't really break that often. But that's cool, the horror stories will keep them cheap enough for me to afford, so keep it up.

Come down and fix my Mk3, it hasn't run in forever. No power from the computer to anything else, found it by noticing the fuel pump is not getting power.

It had some kind of alarm system in it that I removed, but obviously I screwed something up. If I was able to find a wiring harness in a junkyard, I'd just replace that, since it is obviously hacked up somewhere.

16vCorey wrote: I keep thinking that one of these cars are going to disintegrate in front of me and make me a believer, but I've been working on VW's since I was 14 years old, and still don't understand the VW hate. They're not hard to fix, and they don't really break that often. But that's cool, the horror stories will keep them cheap enough for me to afford, so keep it up.

Really? Tell that to the 1998 A4 Avant parked in a family member's garage that has an EGR issue that requires pulling the damned heads to fix. We've already replaced both EGR's and the goofy square vacuum hose as well as the throttle body (buried in the back of the engine) and we did the timing belt (pulling the front end off the car in the process, brilliant). It runs fine otherwise, but because the ECU won't clear it won't pass emissions. Oh and the shift to second is really quite hard, so there's a $3000 transaxle bill. I also won't mention the dashboard display that has failed, etc.

Great car, cruises beautifully, but spending $6000 to fix it is a waste of money at this point.

Of course he hasn't learned his lesson completely since he just bought a '14 Jetta Wagon. At least it has a warranty this time.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Come down and fix my Mk3, it hasn't run in forever. No power from the computer to anything else, found it by noticing the fuel pump is not getting power. It had some kind of alarm system in it that I removed, but obviously I screwed something up. If I was able to find a wiring harness in a junkyard, I'd just replace that, since it is obviously hacked up somewhere.

I'm not sure it's really fair to blame that one on VW…

why does everyone get so caught up in "service records"?

look the car over, use your best car guy judgement to figure out if it's worth it, then buy it anyways...

codrus wrote: I'm not sure it's really fair to blame that one on VW…

Oh, it isn't. I should have put a smiley face on it. Everything else about the car is easy to work on, but this issue has just baffled me for 18 months or so.

Same here. People LOVE to hate on the VAG products on this board. I've owned multiple examples of most Audi's including several B5's and have put 100's of thousands of trouble free miles on them. They're good cars.

Buy a neglected one and be prepared to bear the brunt of the previous owners stupidity.

I dont get the VW hate either. Especially the guys that bring up 90's models as an example ... or Audis. Btw, I oned both brands.

Resale values on TDIs also dont reflect all these problems, since they hold up really well.

I've been renting a base model Golf this month to get a feel for the VW experience, and no issues yet. I could see how the GTI treatment could really make this an enjoyable street car. More to go wrong then, however.

16vCorey wrote: I keep thinking that one of these cars are going to disintegrate in front of me and make me a believer, but I've been working on VW's since I was 14 years old, and still don't understand the VW hate. They're not hard to fix, and they don't really break that often. But that's cool, the horror stories will keep them cheap enough for me to afford, so keep it up.

My wife's lightly-driven and well-maintained 2001 Jetta visited the dealer for a repair (warranty, thankfully) probably 8-10 times in the 2ish years we owned it. Most of it being electrical things, motors breaking, etc. When the rear passenger window motor broke for the THIRD time (even though it only got very occasional use), we got rid of the car. The 2004 Mazda3 that followed it never saw the dealer after the day we drove it home. And we owned it for 4 years. Similar cars, similar price points. The VW was garbage (albeit nice-looking and fun to drive garbage). The first-year Mazda3 was pretty much flawless in terms of breakage.

Virtually everyone I know who owns or has owned a VW has pretty much the same stories....Jettas, GTIs, Passats....doesn't seem to matter. Same stories. YMMV.

All that said, you hear plenty of horror stories about Subarus....engines, ringlands, transmissions, etc etc etc. Meanwhile my WRX is beaten hard every day and hasn't had a single problem in 90K+ miles of brutal treatment. So again, YMMV.

I'm thinking about taking my wife to test drive this thing. It has about 90k, but no service records on the Carfax.

I am thinking that if she likes it, we can search for a non-Fahrenheit version from a private party that actually has records. It won't be Awesome Orange in color, though.

My '83 Rabbit GTI had an unending litany of electrical and transaxle problems. I was relieved whaen it was stolen. My wife's Jetta MK3 was a terd, and doing a clutch and replacing the ticking reverse gear aged me a year. Her current B5 A4 2.8 Q manual is done when the clutch is used up.

And I've tried to help any number of friends fix the V.A.G. products, often to no avail.

No more V.A.G. products for me.

I've heard bad things about the paddle shift transmissions on those. Not so much about the real manuals.

To this day I maintain the r32 Golf a friend of mine owned is the most solid car I've ever driven. That thing was a bank vault. You still couldn't pay me to own one.

Because, internet bitch factor aside, everybody knows a VAG horror story. My wife's coworker had a NuBeetle, 2nd or 3rd year, not an introductory model. It was bone stock and had an incurable CEL. The dealer effectively replaced every electrical component, including the ECU, the wiring harness, the dash pod, and every sensor. This was on her nickel, mind you, not VW's. Never fixed it and the dealer just gave up. In Delaware and all surrounding states, you can't register a car with the CEL lit, and they do a plugin test. So a 5 year old car with less them 100k on it, in otherwise fine condition, was worth scrap value as soon as the tags expired.

I've rallied Subaru's for the past 8 years of my life. The turbo cars (even the WRX with the "glass" 5 speed) are nothing short of amazing for the durability they demonstrate being bombed down gravel roads in a competition environment, completely stock drivetrain wise.

VW's/Audis of any stripe (on the other hand), suck monkey balls.

I test drove a Farenheit when I was looking for a new car. I was really interested in it because of the dual clutch auto, since I had to buy an auto for my commute but wanted a manual performance. Frankly, I was impressed with the transmission-- didn't feel much different than the MINI auto I drove, except maybe there was less of a delay getting from one gear to another.

I bought the MINI because it had superior handling and was more fun to drive. Who knew it would also be easier to work on and more reliable?