BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) said:BRZ also has a back seat, kind of. So that further differentiates it from the MX-5.
This makes a big difference for people like me who have one child to drive around. A small back seat makes the car much more practical than a Miata. Although the kid exiting the back seat by themselves now requires some contortions.
350z247 said:In reply to Carsandbikes :
No, you don't need 400hp in traffic, but there are certainly times and places when you can use that power. The same argument could be applied to big brakes, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, LSDs, oil coolers, or any number of other performance upgrades. You don't need them until you hit the track or canyon, but they're the reason you buy a sports car to begin with. It would be less annoying if Toyota didn't already have a better engine in their lineup in the 2GR V6.
The hoodline would have to be a higher to clear the taller engine, so the beltline would be higher, so the roofline would be higher, and you end up with a rear drive Rav4. One of the refreshing things about the Frisbee twins is how large they aren't.
Or you can just make the whole car bigger to keep the proportions right, and end up with another IS250.
You might be able to cram the engine under the existing hoodline, but then it wouldn't pass pedestrian collisiom standards.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:350z247 said:In reply to Carsandbikes :
No, you don't need 400hp in traffic, but there are certainly times and places when you can use that power. The same argument could be applied to big brakes, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, LSDs, oil coolers, or any number of other performance upgrades. You don't need them until you hit the track or canyon, but they're the reason you buy a sports car to begin with. It would be less annoying if Toyota didn't already have a better engine in their lineup in the 2GR V6.
The hoodline would have to be a higher to clear the taller engine, so the beltline would be higher, so the roofline would be higher, and you end up with a rear drive Rav4. One of the refreshing things about the Frisbee twins is how large they aren't.
Or you can just make the whole car bigger to keep the proportions right, and end up with another IS250.
You might be able to cram the engine under the existing hoodline, but then it wouldn't pass pedestrian collisiom standards.
Yeah, no way would this car be as small and light as it is if it were designed to house a more powerful engine under the hood.
There's a drop-in high revving 3.0L V8 motor solution for BRZ/GT86s that is smaller, lighter, and lower CG than the stock motor... 500+hp and ~240ftlb...
Just costs several times the price of the car and needs rebuilds about ever 30k miles or so...
I tried to like the original BRZ/FRS, the pre release hype got me, I was on board, even remember the very first one I saw in the wild.
Then, when they were "real," and available, the magic was gone. I don't know what happened, maybe I read too many of the detractors complaints.
Neither the original nor this one have any appeal to me. Maybe I'm broken.
The 1st gen does look better than the new one. I don't get the Porsche references, the new one's front end looks like someone put parentheses on the sides of a 2nd gen Mazda 3.
In reply to bigdaddylee82 :
Oh, I think both generations are butt ugly. But the fact that there even exists in 2020 a sub 3000lb, rear drive 2+2, with a decent four cylinder and not some turbo or large-displacement abomination, is in my opinion something to be applauded.
(you listening Mazda? You could be here if you'd make a fixed roof Miata. Hell, call it the MX-7)
Wow what a stunner. I was an early adopter of the toyobaru 2013 and ended up selling it to buy my first property. It was a gift to myself after graduating engineering. I was going to sharpen it slightly for trackdays and autox. None of that happened but I still took it out for a couple runs around the cones and used it for some coaching at our local track with just pads. After taking the FRS out back to back with a students lightly modified e90 m3, I appreciated my little sports car even more. Much more fun driving experience at the limit.
This looks to have improved in every way. Gorgeous and clean styling, I see some Cayman and supra up front and don't mind the rear. Seems most of the cockpit carried over, looks very familiar. Still one of the roomiest and most driver centric cockpits I have sat in, at 6'2" and I could fit with a helmet.
I love that they kept it N/A, I love that peak torque is much lower now and weight gain is minimal. The only complaint I had with mine was the sound of the motor after coming from the k20 Si, hopefully this one sounds a bit better. I typically don't care for new cars but a modern, basic, rwd, standard and lightweight sports car? Keep em coming. This is the anti tesla, for those who still enjoy an engaging drive. I genuinely hope it does well.
PS: Cheap, Lightweight, Power. Pick two. That's how this works.
Overall I like the new car. Torque comes in sooner and more of it! I like the N/A but would not object to a turbo option. As for power lvl this should be fine. I DD a 200hp /225lbs car that weighs 3300 lbs and it's fine short of a race track. Just hope that 6th gear is fairly tall for relaxed hiway cruising. (The extra torque will help here).
Interior looks good to me. Info screen is low in the dash, not sticking out the top like an after thought. Good. Would be nice to ditch the screen for a plain old radio because i struggle with tech.
In reply to 350z247 :
Because the cost would go up and the weight would go up.
I sat in a presentation 10ft from Dave Coleman and listened to him explain the incredible lengths they want to to lighten that car. NO ONE does that anymore. Look at BMW, more power, bigger, heavier, faster, every generation. Who. Cares. They become even more irrelevant as time goes on.
Maybe I'm just a grumpy Gus but I think cars are their best when I feel like I'm actually working them. I'm not talented by any means but there is nowhere in the real world where 400hp can be used continuously. Shoot, in the twisties around here I can 2x-3x the speed limit with 220hp and that's scary enough. I would much rather have a car that I can use and that rewards me for being used. (Lightweight, moderate power, excellent dynamics)
I practice what I preach here, I sold my MS3 for a base Boxster and my FZ6 for 40 year old Moto Guzzi. I don't have a hint of regret for either decision.
Edit: manufacturers have to build cars under increasingly strict guidelines. The aftermarket can shove whatever they want under that hood because they don't have to meet pedestrian crash standards. Have you noticed how every new front engined at has a wall for a grill? Regulations. Only exotics get away with low hood lines because the engine usually sits in the back somewhere.
Also my modern Subaru engine experience has been totally acceptable. Zero issues in 40k. The noise is...meh but it works. I'm not sure I follow the concerns about that enginr
spandak said:In reply to 350z247 :
Because the cost would go up and the weight would go up.
I sat in a presentation 10ft from Dave Coleman and listened to him explain the incredible lengths they want to to lighten that car. NO ONE does that anymore. Look at BMW, more power, bigger, heavier, faster, every generation. Who. Cares. They become even more irrelevant as time goes on.
Maybe I'm just a grumpy Gus but I think cars are their best when I feel like I'm actually working them. I'm not talented by any means but there is nowhere in the real world where 400hp can be used continuously. Shoot, in the twisties around here I can 2x-3x the speed limit with 220hp and that's scary enough. I would much rather have a car that I can use and that rewards me for being used. (Lightweight, moderate power, excellent dynamics)
I practice what I preach here, I sold my MS3 for a base Boxster and my FZ6 for 40 year old Moto Guzzi. I don't have a hint of regret for either decision.
Edit: manufacturers have to build cars under increasingly strict guidelines. The aftermarket can shove whatever they want under that hood because they don't have to meet pedestrian crash standards. Have you noticed how every new front engined at has a wall for a grill? Regulations. Only exotics get away with low hood lines because the engine usually sits in the back somewhere.
Also my modern Subaru engine experience has been totally acceptable. Zero issues in 40k. The noise is...meh but it works. I'm not sure I follow the concerns about that enginr
Yep. I think I said as much in this thread or the one I started. Plus, if you want a BRZ with a bunch of power, buy a first gen and slap some forced induction on it. Just be sure to have a spare block ready to go in once a rod breaks and ventilates the block or eats the #4 rod bearing.
It's not the point of the car and there are plenty of cars to buy if you need to turn your rear tires into smoke.
Some of the car mags have published ride along impressions which sound pretty positive. The more I see the car, the more I like it.
spandak said:I sat in a presentation 10ft from Dave Coleman and listened to him explain the incredible lengths they want to to lighten that car. NO ONE does that anymore.
Edit: manufacturers have to build cars under increasingly strict guidelines. The aftermarket can shove whatever they want under that hood because they don't have to meet pedestrian crash standards. Have you noticed how every new front engined at has a wall for a grill? Regulations. Only exotics get away with low hood lines because the engine usually sits in the back somewhere.
With the ND, Mazda undercut the weight of the carbon fiber chassis Alpha 4C, so yeah, they did impressive things. The ND also has top notch pedestrian crash standards without ruining the look of the car. I also have to imagine better aerodynamics are possible when the front end shape doesn't have to resemble a brick.
Kiwi gov't crash test/safety group comments:
“Not only has the MX-5 performed well in each of the impact tests, this is the highest pedestrian protection score we have seen for any vehicle to date,” he said.
The MX-5 has an active, or ‘pop-up’, bonnet which is designed to provide extra clearance between a pedestrian’s head and the vehicle’s stiff components beneath. https://www.ancap.com.au/media-and-gallery/releases/a-safety-high-five-for-popular-sports-car-mazda-mx-5
I love it; looks good, low weight, adequate engine output, and will certainly handle well. If I want to lose my license there's no lack of options, so IMO every affordable, lightweight sports car should be celebrated.
Subie and 'Yota also know what they're doing with the twins; I actually really like the look of it. The rear makes me think of the 5th Gen Supra. Some odd notes:
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
Honestly, with the compression bump I expect E85 to yield potentially larger gains.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
Exactly, up a point to 13.5:1
The previous gen picked up 15-20whp on E85 alone.
After seeing pics all over the place, and different colors, I'm going to retract my statement about the looks. I think it looks great. Probably never buy one, but I'll look.
In reply to z31maniac :
That's what will make this hard for myself, personally. If an E85 tune is as easily done as the 1st gen and yields similar gains- at 2800 lbs- I'd be hard to choose a different vehicle.
barefootskater (Shaun) said:After seeing pics all over the place, and different colors, I'm going to retract my statement about the looks. I think it looks great. Probably never buy one, but I'll look.
I'm still not seeing it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I like the rear a lot better on the current car, and the new front end just looks weak. I'm hoping that aftermarket bumpers can fix it. My overall take is... at least it's not as ugly as the Supra!
GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to z31maniac :
That's what will make this hard for myself, personally. If an E85 tune is as easily done as the 1st gen and yields similar gains- at 2800 lbs- I'd be hard to choose a different vehicle.
The only thing that is likely to make it difficult for me is about the time it goes on sale they are supposed to be announcing the specs and release pics of the next-gen STi to go on sale in 2022.
If it has the rumored 400 hp and looks awesome, I might bite the bullet since I've always wanted a boost buggy.
I almost bought an EVO X back in 2012 (when I got my Mustang GT Track pack instead) but at the time, Mitsubishi didn't have a dealer in Tulsa.
I'm late to the party. Very late, I didn't even know that a new gen of twin was being released. Shame on me but I blame work and holidays, that's still a valid excuse right?
I'm sure it's a hoot to drive and I applaud that they are making a 2nd gen. I'm not a fan of the looks, I think they went way too far. My dislike extends to the inside, it's somehow just a bit bland even with a stupid tablet console. I was just thinking to myself last night about what I would do if my GTI bit the bolt and one of the twins was on my very short list of cars, safe to say that that list has now been amended to specify a 1st gen twin. With infotainment ripped out for a plain old stereo. Heck, MS swapped if need be because some engineer tied the gauges to the radio like a smarty pants or whatever.
Making a short story shorter: meh it could be worse, could be a C8.
Edit: Or a ZupraM TT. I've walked around one of those in a parking lot and it looked worse than the pictures. bleh. Not for me. Not much on the market that is for me, really.
Thredsurection as this is the latest thread I've found on the next gen Frisbee's. Question to those commenting on the E85 flash for the fist gen cars. Is there a switch or sensor added so you can swap between regular (less than 15% ethanol) and E85, or are you stuck with E85 all the time? Also if it's a retune and can use regular gas, does it take care of the torque dip for that too? Why ask about the old car, well the ride along I read on one of the sites says from the passenger seat they think the torque did is very much reduced, but not gone.
Now if they could just fix the last issue with this car, they accidently welded on a roof to them all rather than leaving the top off as the Flying Spaghetti Monster intended for sports cars, everything would be perfect.
Yes 
.
For the first gen, you either have to reflash every time you change fuels, or you can add an aftermarket flex-fuel kit and run a proper flex fuel tune. The latter tends to be more expensive, obviously.
The tune is supposed to partially get rid of the torque dip, but usually word is you want a header and a tune. Given how badly my 1st gen seems to suffer from the dip o' torques, I suspect I'll find out sooner or later.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Thredsurection as this is the latest thread I've found on the next gen Frisbee's. Question to those commenting on the E85 flash for the fist gen cars. Is there a switch or sensor added so you can swap between regular (less than 15% ethanol) and E85, or are you stuck with E85 all the time? Also if it's a retune and can use regular gas, does it take care of the torque dip for that too? Why ask about the old car, well the ride along I read on one of the sites says from the passenger seat they think the torque did is very much reduced, but not gone.
Now if they could just fix the last issue with this car, they accidently welded on a roof to them all rather than leaving the top off as the Flying Spaghetti Monster intended for sports cars, everything would be perfect.
As Tim said, yep. I'd contact the guys at Counter Space Garage. Zach from Delicious Tuning left and went to CSG.
A header + E85 tune eliminates the tq dip while adding ~30whp.
FR-S torque dip was much less noticable on an OFT E85 tune. On an OFT regular gas tune the dip was partially noticable. Stock everything for both.
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